Driving a 1st Gen DMU on todays network

[strange6]

What additional training and costs would it take for a qualified driver (say somebody at Northern) to get licensed to drive a class 101 on a private tour for example? What channels would they have to go through and how much would it cost about?

 

[route:oxford]

What additional training and costs would it take for a qualified driver (say somebody at Northern) to get licensed to drive a class 101 on a private tour for example? What channels would they have to go through and how much would it cost about?

Do any 101s have central door locking fitted?

Chiltern still operate 121s so it can't be an impossible mission.

 

[notadriver]

I'd estimate the figure to be thousands of pounds. Wouldn't the driver need to be assessed by a Driver Manager on any route he would drive over in that unit?

 

[strange6]

I'd estimate the figure to be thousands of pounds. Wouldn't the driver need to be assessed by a Driver Manager on any route he would drive over in that unit?

Most probably! There will come a time when these units are still in existence but all of the qualified drivers will have been retired off or died. If driver9000 reads this, in his professional judgement, what would he have to do in order for him to drive such a train on my behalf ( assuming I was to organise a private tour)?

 

[notadriver]

The other thing to remember is that the unit would have to be certified as 'fit' for the main line. That would cost even more thousands!

 

[strange6]

The other thing to remember is that the unit would have to be certified as 'fit' for the main line. That would cost even more thousands!

Yeah, there is that too. But all of these units are so well looked after and maintained, they would make some of the 150's used today look like sheds! I would really like to get something like this organised. Money is not a problem.

 

[matt]

Yeah, there is that too. But all of these units are are so well looked after and maintained, they would make some of the 150's used today look like sheds!

They would still need central door locking which isn't cheap plus OTMR would need to be fitted.

 

[strange6]

They would still need central door locking which isn't cheap plus OTMR would need to be fitted.

Red tape again! These things were only working the mainline up until 8 or so years ago! What's changed in that time is what i would like to know!

 

[yorksrob]

I wasn't aware that CDL is actually needed for railtours. The Hastings thumper has it but AFAIK this is more so that TOC's can hire it out for normal passenger duties. I would have thought the MK1 ban would be the stumbling block and the need for barrier vehicles etc.

I hope you manage it though - It would be nice to travel in some Northern heritage stock

 

[strange6]

I wasn't aware that CDL is actually needed for railtours. The Hastings thumper has it but AFAIK this is more so that TOC's can hire it out for normal passenger duties. I would have thought the MK1 ban would be the stumbling block and the need for barrier vehicles etc.

I hope you manage it though - It would be nice to travel in some Northern heritage stock

I would love to get something arranged. I'll make enquiries; you can count on it.

Meanwhile, this is a good video if you can get your hands on it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbbQsKOFezY&feature=related

 

[Kingfisher200262]

They would still need central door locking which isn't cheap plus OTMR would need to be fitted.

Mk I coaches can operate on charters without central locking, as long as there is a steward present in each coach. I would have thought the same principle could be applied to a first generation DMU.

As for the OTMR, I'm pretty sure this would need to be fitted, and the cost is not insignificant (in the thousands).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I would have thought the MK1 ban would be the stumbling block and the need for barrier vehicles etc.

You might like to have a look at Steam Railway issue 387 - apparently the need for barrier vehicles on Mk 1 charters is currently under review and is likely to be abolished.

 

[yorksrob]

You might like to have a look at Steam Railway issue 387 - apparently the need for barrier vehicles on Mk 1 charters is currently under review and is likely to be abolished.

Now that is good news !

 

[notadriver]

Not sure about central door locking, but a working OTMR and TPWS (in addition to AWS) most definitely.

 

[strange6]

Not sure about central door locking, but a working OTMR and TPWS (in addition to AWS) most definitely.

When did this come into effect?

 

[notadriver]

Probably after Ladbroke Grove and Southall (late 90s) ...

 

[Old Hill Bank]

When did this come into effect?

Professional advice required here I think!!!!!!!!!:-x

 

[Hydro]

When did this come into effect?

TPWS 2003, and OTMR 2007 IIRC.

 

[BestWestern]

Worthwhile tactic could possibly be to approach one of the few TOC's with the afore mentioned Bubble cars still running and enquire about a 'Spot hire' arrangement, as those units should already be fitted with the relevant mainline kit.

 

[Rugd1022]

Worthwhile tactic could possibly be to approach one of the few TOC's with the afore mentioned Bubble cars still running and enquire about a 'Spot hire' arrangement, as those units should already be fitted with the relevant mainline kit.

That would be a more logical way to go as the owning TOCs will already have drivers who sign the traction. The problem comes when you want to take a particular unit on a route the drivers don't sign (if the TOC can spare the unit and driver in the first place), you'd have to hire in additional drivers to conduct them over the routes. Not cheap!

 

[driver9000]

Your going to be looking at a fair amount of cash. There are no 101s registered to run on Network Rail that I know of, any that would be will need fitting with OTDR which became mandatory in December 2007. The sets in use with FNW did have TPWS fitted as I recall. The 10x DMUs would be covered by the route clearances headed 'her' in the sectional appendix. Driver training would need to be done as a full course, they've been off cards too long to be covered a refresh. A lot of paperwork, money, and jumping through hoops but if you pull it off I'd love to get to grips with a vacuum brake and a gear selector!

 

[ChrisCooper]

I can't see it's any different to running preserved locos on the mainline, afterall there were no TOC drivers qualified to drive Deltics, Westerns, 50s, 40s etc when these returned to the mainline. I'm sure the last steam drivers retired years ago, infact the numbers alive must be reducing fast now.

Glad to hear that the need for barrier coaches is being reviewed, totally stupid and pointless rule that is. Might make future unit railtours more likely, as well as preventing the gradual slide to coffin coaches on enbtusiast tours (sort of defeats the point of interesting haulage when you are in an environment where it's impossible to tell what is hauling you anyway).

 

[gordonthemoron]

Friend from school used to drive 1st gen DMUs on the Cumbrian Coast line, Dobbo would be 51 now so he may not have retired

 

[Hydro]

Some ex-Serco drivers may have been driving 101's (IRIS) recently enough (4 years or so?) to still have them on their cards. I think that was converted to air brakes mind.

 

[notadriver]

I'll be a volunteer alongside driver9000 if you can fund this. Just cover my travel and food expenses.

 

[driver9000]

Some ex-Serco drivers may have been driving 101's (IRIS) recently enough (4 years or so?) to still have them on their cards. I think that was converted to air brakes mind.

I think the FNW 101s were the last in traffic in 2003, I'm sure the departmental sets had been withdrawn by then but I don't know if they were converted to air brakes. My TOC has a 2yr cut off for refreshing traction after that window has passed then it's a full course to re-learn the type the concerned. Traction training shouldn't be a massive barrier if the owners are willing to train drivers or be involved with the TOCs devising a training scheme as was done for the heritage locomotives that ply their trade on the network (I'd bet there is still 101 traction documents kicking about the former FNW depot offices now inhabited by Northern), I still have the old brake regulations containing the instructions for braking vacuum and EP braked stock along with Westcode that were issued to me.

There are plenty of 'old hands' that have driven these old trains and locomotives that are now driving modern trains around and will be for many years, I certainly work with a fair number of older generation drivers who would love to be given the chance to relive those days on the mainline.

As a side note, and going back to cost (which is the biggest hurdle along with H&S) I seem to recall that OTDR costs around £20,000!

 

[strange6]

I think the FNW 101s were the last in traffic in 2003, I'm sure the departmental sets had been withdrawn by then but I don't know if they were converted to air brakes. My TOC has a 2yr cut off for refreshing traction after that window has passed then it's a full course to re-learn the type the concerned. Traction training shouldn't be a massive barrier if the owners are willing to train drivers or be involved with the TOCs devising a training scheme as was done for the heritage locomotives that ply their trade on the network (I'd bet there is still 101 traction documents kicking about the former FNW depot offices now inhabited by Northern), I still have the old brake regulations containing the instructions for braking vacuum and EP braked stock along with Westcode that were issued to me.

There are plenty of 'old hands' that have driven these old trains and locomotives that are now driving modern trains around and will be for many years, I certainly work with a fair number of older generation drivers who would love to be given the chance to relive those days on the mainline.

As a side note, and going back to cost (which is the biggest hurdle along with H&S) I seem to recall that OTDR costs around £20,000!

I'm going to do some research into this; I'm deadly serious about getting one of these things back on the line for tours. I'll let you know how I'm progressing with things but thanks for the advice everybody. And I'll certainly remember the qualified people on here if they're interested in using some of their free time up to drive more bleeding trains

 

[driver9000]

Most probably! There will come a time when these units are still in existence but all of the qualified drivers will have been retired off or died. If driver9000 reads this, in his professional judgement, what would he have to do in order for him to drive such a train on my behalf ( assuming I was to organise a private tour)?

For me (or any other driver) to be able to drive a 1st generation unit (or any unit/loco), I would have to be trained in the full operation of the unit. For example this would include location and identification of all equipment, preparation and disposal duties, coupling, uncoupling, fault rectification, and a certain amount of handling which would vary depending on the unit. If I was learning another Westcode tread braked unit for example I wouldn't require that much handling as I already drive Westcode tread braked trains, but to train on a vacuum brake this would require more handling as I have never been trained on vacuum braked trains before. When I first learnt disc brakes (albeit Westcode type brakes) I had to undertake around 4 hours handling before I could be passed out. This training would be spread out over a few days if necessary. I believe when VXC hired D9000 in the late 90s, the drivers were only trained in the handling of the locomotive. A travelling fitter was supplied by the locomotive owners so a deep technical knowledge of the locomotive wasn't required as all preparation, disposal and fault rectification was carried out by those fitters.

 

[Mvann]

One of the reasons the last 101s were withdrawn was due to the fact that the gas used in the fire extinguishing system was banned. I have heard a rumour that NYMR are looking at getting there DMU registered for use on the Grosmont to Whitby section.

 

[KiddyKid]

The Chiltern bubble car is only allowed to carry passengers on two specific routes namely Aylesbury- Princes Risborough and Aylesbury-Quainton Road, it is limited to 40mph and the CDL must be operational. If the unit is being transferred ECS to another location it can run at 70mph.