Drivers door open while train moving

[dctraindriver]

National Railway Museum. From their exhibition Caution! Railway Safety Since 1913.

Cheers, good site, thankfully a lots been learnt since the early 1900s. I’ve seen HST drivers with the door open, I can’t see the problem on this. Some days I wish I could do the same when my aircon goes kaput!

 

[DarloRich]

However do those who dream up such regulations think crews handled steam locomotives, with a wide open space both sides of the cab at all times, the floor slippery from water and spilled small coal, and the driver actually leaning out over the side for a better view. And nobody fell out.

I bet you they did fall out.

In any event what they did in the halcyon days of 1903 or 1933 or 1953 has no bearing on today. Thankfully we take worker safety a touch more seriously. We still hurt and kill too many people on the railways. That matters to some of us.

 

[farleigh]

National Railway Museum. From their exhibition Caution! Railway Safety Since 1913.

Blimey - that's 80 odd a day.
I wondered how many were injured - must have been in six figures.
Incredible!

 

[Puffing Devil]

Does this include the navvies working on new PW?

 

[lincolnshire]

So does all the preserved railway lines and the steam loco,s that run on Network Rail tracks fitted with doors to stop people falling off the footplate then? As at times there is more than driver and fireman on the footplate or doesn,t the worker safety matter in this case then?

 

[Dieseldriver]

So does all the preserved railway lines and the steam loco,s that run on Network Rail tracks fitted with doors to stop people falling off the footplate then? As at times there is more than driver and fireman on the footplate or doesn,t the worker safety matter in this case then?

Grandfather's rights I would have thought. In the same way that people still drive their vintage cars on main roads on a sunny Sunday afternoon. If you own a modern car I bet it has high quality seat belts, air bags and effective energy absorbing crumple zones built in its basic design as a minimum though.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Does this include the navvies working on new PW?

Edit. 1913 no it wouldn’t as most of the pway was in place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I bet you they did fall out.

In any event what they did in the halcyon days of 1903 or 1933 or 1953 has no bearing on today. Thankfully we take worker safety a touch more seriously. We still hurt and kill too many people on the railways. That matters to some of us.

I actually don’t agree, we have reached diminishing returns to the point we would be better spending any additional safety funding on reducing fares (to get people out of much more dangerous modes of transport i.e. cars and motorcycles) and on road safety improvements instead.

 

[Antman]

I bet you they did fall out.

In any event what they did in the halcyon days of 1903 or 1933 or 1953 has no bearing on today. Thankfully we take worker safety a touch more seriously. We still hurt and kill too many people on the railways. That matters to some of us.

Ironic that worker safety being taken a touch more seriously has increased the likelihood of a driver passing out in an unbearably hot cab...............hmmm!

 

[DarloRich]

I actually don’t agree, we have reached diminishing returns to the point we would be better spending any additional safety funding on reducing fares (to get people out of much more dangerous modes of transport i.e. cars and motorcycles) and on road safety improvements instead.

I don't think we have reached that point on the railways as far as the staff go. That is what I am concerned about.

 

[mmh]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/raib-report-032016-serious-accident-at-west-wickham-station

RAIB identified this door behaviour, which was not known to the owner or operator, and issued urgent safety advice. In response to this, the railway industry undertook a review which identified 21 other types of train that permit passenger doors to be opened for a short period after door closure is initiated by train crew.

While that sort of thing can happen we haven't got to some magical point where we've epent enough and any more is elf 'n safety gone mad. A horrific accident.

 

[philthetube]

I don't think there is any danger of a driver falling out of a train, on the Northern line prior to ATO it was common to see people driving with cab the drivers side cab door open, also with the A stock you would never see one with the doors closed outdoors in hot weather.

Think about all the vans which used to run around with sliding drivers doors, often running round with them open but no drivers falling out, and a much rockier journey.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Blimey - that's 80 odd a day.
I wondered how many were injured - must have been in six figures.
Incredible!

Err... no, that figure of 30,000 includes the injuries.

 

[Warwick]

The chance of someone falling out - particularly of a HST - is indeed negligable. But it's still against the rules, and whilst there's plenty of rules I wish we'd take a common sense approach to, we still have to follow them.

. The chances of the driver of an HST - or any locomotive - sitting in his driving seat with the cab door open at 125 mph falling out is less than negligible - it's zero. These sort of rules are dreamed up by 25 year old college boys trying to justify their jobs and titles. It just makes a mockery of real threats to safety. As "Taunton" has pointed out, a steam locomotive's footplate was/is a much more open situation but no-one fell out or off.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Theodore Rothstein's book From Chartism to Labourism (London, 1929; republished London, 1983, p 235) gives annual figures of deaths and non-fatal injuries of railway employees from 1897 to 1912 in Britain. The lowest number of deaths was 372, the highest 631, the overall trend during that period seems to be a slight decline. The lowest number of non-fatal injuries was 12 979, the highest 28 200, the overall trend being a steady increase, more or less doubling over the 16 years. Rothstein also gives details of the very long hours that railway workers were working at that time, just over one half were working 60 or more hours a week in 1907, and only seven per cent were working under 54 hours a week. On page 242, he gives death and non-fatal accident figures across industry as a whole.

 

[Dr_Paul]

On a lighter note, and returning (sort of) to the original post, I once hired a Ford Transit van with a sliding driver's door. As it was a nice sunny day, I drove around London with the door locked back in the open position and never felt unsafe. Whether something nasty might have happened were I to have had an accident, I don't know, but it was good fun.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a lighter note, and returning (sort of) to the original post, I once hired a Ford Transit van with a sliding driver's door. As it was a nice sunny day, I drove around London with the door locked back in the open position and never felt unsafe. Whether something nasty might have happened were I to have had an accident, I don't know, but it was good fun.

UPS vans seem to drive round with the door open most of the time.

 

[E_Reeves]

On a lighter note, and returning (sort of) to the original post, I once hired a Ford Transit van with a sliding driver's door. As it was a nice sunny day, I drove around London with the door locked back in the open position and never felt unsafe. Whether something nasty might have happened were I to have had an accident, I don't know, but it was good fun.

And you see these UPS vans with sliding doors going around which look very unsafe. But if they were actually unsafe, they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[E_Reeves]

UPS vans seem to drive round with the door open most of the time.

And you see these UPS vans with sliding doors going around which look very unsafe. But if they were actually unsafe, they wouldn't be doing it.

Great minds think alike

 

[philthetube]

a driver is as likely to fall out of an open cab door as a passenger seated centrally on a seat is to fall into the isle, that never happens without other factors such as alcohol being involved.

 

[whhistle]

Ah, the good old days when 30,000 railway workers were killed or injured annually. So much better...

Right. And all those deaths were caused by the single invention of an enclosed cab?
I'm surprised the yellow front brigade hasn't piped up to suggest the addition of "bright" front ends hasn't reduced deaths.

If you're a fan of people falling in a hole because there wasn't a sign telling them there was a hole, that's fine. I just prefer to watch where I'm walking.

Or another good one is having a wet floor sign, when it's pouring down with rain outside. Is it not obvious the floor is likely to be wet? I guess some people need a sign to tell them!

 

[route101]

And you see these UPS vans with sliding doors going around which look very unsafe. But if they were actually unsafe, they wouldn't be doing it.

I noticed one with both doors open other day , was in City Centre so low speeds.

 

[route101]

On a lighter note, and returning (sort of) to the original post, I once hired a Ford Transit van with a sliding driver's door. As it was a nice sunny day, I drove around London with the door locked back in the open position and never felt unsafe. Whether something nasty might have happened were I to have had an accident, I don't know, but it was good fun.

There used to be Transit milk van in my area , the back sliding door was constantly open and inside where the milkboys .

 

[farleigh]

Err... no, that figure of 30,000 includes the injuries.

I am awfully sorry. I did not read it carefully.

 

[Termy]

If you're a fan of people falling in a hole because there wasn't a sign telling them there was a hole, that's fine. I just prefer to watch where I'm walking.

Or another good one is having a wet floor sign, when it's pouring down with rain outside. Is it not obvious the floor is likely to be wet? I guess some people need a sign to tell them!

This kind of health and safety mad environment just really irritates me. Unless something is REALLY NECESSARY as it isn't obvious, it doesn't need a sign. I'm more likely to trip over the sign than the thing it's warning me about these days...

 

[Warwick]

Theodore Rothstein's book From Chartism to Labourism (London, 1929; republished London, 1983, p 235) gives annual figures of deaths and non-fatal injuries of railway employees from 1897 to 1912 in Britain. The lowest number of deaths was 372, the highest 631, the overall trend during that period seems to be a slight decline. The lowest number of non-fatal injuries was 12 979, the highest 28 200, the overall trend being a steady increase, more or less doubling over the 16 years. Rothstein also gives details of the very long hours that railway workers were working at that time, just over one half were working 60 or more hours a week in 1907, and only seven per cent were working under 54 hours a week. On page 242, he gives death and non-fatal accident figures across industry as a whole.

And none were attributable to footplate staff falling out...............

 

[Warwick]

This kind of health and safety mad environment just really irritates me. Unless something is REALLY NECESSARY as it isn't obvious, it doesn't need a sign. I'm more likely to trip over the sign than the thing it's warning me about these days...

I promise you by all that you consider holy the following is true.
I had to countersign an entry in an accident book which read, "I hit my head on the sign that stated restricted headroom".
The world has gone mad when a tin of sardines carries a warning, "caution,contains fish".

 

[Class 170101]

The D78 Stock on the District Line could have the doors open when they operated. Regularly seen in summer.

 

[cf111]

Ironic that worker safety being taken a touch more seriously has increased the likelihood of a driver passing out in an unbearably hot cab...............hmmm!

Surely by the time the cab got to that heat the driver would have, quite rightly, failed the train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This kind of health and safety mad environment just really irritates me. Unless something is REALLY NECESSARY as it isn't obvious, it doesn't need a sign. I'm more likely to trip over the sign than the thing it's warning me about these days...

Try China. It has H&S "don't do this, don't do that" signs *everywhere*.