Driverless trains report

[Dieseldriver]

Bear in mind that on the tube (a much more 'contained' system than the mainline) on the lines that are ATO the driver still has to take manual control in the event of a train failure, signal fault, fault with the ATO software etc. Also have heard of occasions in leaffall where the driver ends up taking control of the train as it is more reliable than the ATO. This is on a system with much lower speeds and less variables to deal with compared to the mainline.

 

[Carlisle]

[*]Trains where the guard has to handle multitaksing between operational and customer-facing roles would see a revenue-neutral increase in customer service as the conductor would be just a conductor and not a conductor+guard.
[*]Trains where a guard currently performs only operational tasks would see a revenue-neutral introduction of customer service by that guard being replaced by a conductor, or costs reduced as the guard gets phased out with their operational tasks transferred to the train captain.
[/LIST]

I'm sure it will happen one day ,but compared to today's technology how will those outcomes stated above(assuming the driver has to remain mostly in front cab)be any superior to current methods of simply converting a line to DOO conditions and retaining or introducing onboard staff where necessary ?

 

[The Decapod]

Developments in rail and other technologies are pointing the way to driverless trains in the future.

It would be interesting to see some opinions on here from people in the computing, robotics or systems control sectors - they might differ from the opinions of people in the railway industry or railway enthusiasts.

 

[Olaf]

Developments in rail and other technologies are pointing the way to driverless trains in the future.

It would be interesting to see some opinions on here from people in the computing, robotics or systems control sectors - they might differ from the opinions of people in the railway industry or railway enthusiasts.

The applications of the technology already exist and are deployed on various systems around the world. There is nothing significantly advanced in the technology, only in the lack of widespread availability of product and engineered systems on which to deploy it. If you look at the ROC program, it is nothing particularly new (except to the UK) and if anything, the timetable could be advanced if the implementation costs could be reduced sufficiently to justify writing off existing train control infrastructure. Even the envisioned number of ROCs is probably over-kill, and will follow a pattern as seen with the BT NOCs in the 90s.

 

[Tomnick]

If you look at the ROC program, it is nothing particularly new (except to the UK) and if anything, the timetable could be advanced if the implementation costs could be reduced sufficiently to justify writing off existing train control infrastructure.

Is this the same ROC programme as the one that seems to be slipping further and further behind schedule? One reason is a lack of signalling designers, installers and testers (and that can't be changed overnight), but I understand that justification of the cost of implementation is a problem in at least one case.

Even the envisioned number of ROCs is probably over-kill, and will follow a pattern as seen with the BT NOCs in the 90s.

What significant benefits would reducing the number of ROCs below the already low number bring? Set that against the reduced ability for each ROC to co-ordinate things with the 'main' TOC's Control in the same room too. If only we were operating a telephone network and not a railway!

 

[richie26188]

Still a minimum of 20 years off at least. It's easy laying out plans but let's be realistic.

Some TOCs are still using 40 year old units, Network Rail is £50 odd billion in debt - the technology may be close but investment on such a large scale to implement will be very slow. As people who work in the industry will vouch, progress works in decades rather thsn months/years on the railways.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

As more labour and skills become automated then there will be no need to commute and when the Matrix takes over our leisure activities there will be no need to go anywhere, so need for any trains at all.

 

[carriageline]

Still a minimum of 20 years off at least. It's easy laying out plans but let's be realistic.



Some TOCs are still using 40 year old units, Network Rail is £50 odd billion in debt - the technology may be close but investment on such a large scale to implement will be very slow. As people who work in the industry will vouch, progress works in decades rather thsn months/years on the railways.

I agree with what you say about network rail being in debt etc. As of next month, network rail moves out behind the government and becomes (I believe) a full public sector company. From what I gather, this means the government manage the finances more and Network Rails debt becomes public debt (whereas the government was only a guarantor for network rail before) as they should, they will be under a lot of fire and pressure to reduce public spending, and I'm seriously interested into how that will affect future investment.


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[21C101]

Its when someone successfully trials teleporting that we need to really worry.

Beam me up Scottie, and dust off that Serpell report.......

 

[SamYeager]

I have no real technical knowledge about the issues involved in operating and navigating a train but I recall seeing a program in which the US military successfully sent a number of autonomous vehicles around a lengthy and rugged terrain. Now obviously there is a big difference between a vehicle with no humans, military or otherwise, aboard and a passenger train.

I've read on this forum about the rollout of euro train control - is that the right name? - which I suspect could be used in conjunction with an on-board system for controlling a train. I would imagine it could be initially trialled on freight trains. Once the inevitable bugs were worked out such a system might be rolled out to areas with less busy timetables for further trials. Do we have such things as branch lines nowadays?

All of this certainly wouldn't be cheap and would take quite a number of years to be developed and phased in. However I fully expect it to happen although the timescale is more likely to be in excess of 20 to 30 years for full rollout. Freight trials however might start within 10 years.

 

[455driver]

As more labour and skills become automated then there will be no need to commute and when the Matrix takes over our leisure activities there will be no need to go anywhere, so need for any trains at all.

Oh bummer, in that case I had better get down the job centre tomorrow!

 

[GarethJohn]

Are we that far away from being able to introduce something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMynzWJoDaY

 

[Dieseldriver]

You are aware that unit has two levels, the driver sat in the cab above where this was filmed?

 

[455driver]

You are aware that unit has two levels, the driver sat in the cab above where this was filmed?

Now you have gone and spoiled it!

 

[GarethJohn]

Didn't realise there was one above. But we will never get a Railway as good as Japans in my lifetime. Perhaps it's wishful thinking to expect too.

 

[Tomnick]

Not with the ongoing obsession with destaffing and running it as cheaply as possible we won't, no.

 

[455driver]

Not with the ongoing obsession with destaffing and running it as cheaply as possible we won't, no.

Its called 'value for money'!

Its a pity the MPs dont use the same standards when they are sorting out their second homes and expence accounts isnt it!