Driver Uniforms

[richardjones21]

Clip on ties were standard issue for NBC drivers!

Personally, and it is subjective, I'm less keen on ties as some drivers have them looking like rags hanging round their neck. It doesn't cost a fortune for half decent workwear with some smart polo shirts, uniform trousers, and a decent coat plus a high viz. Having a decently presented driver in the correct uniform really is something that provides confidence to passengers. A driver should look like a professional who can be trusted. Put the other way, if they've not bothered to concern themselves to look professional, it may convey the impression that they have cut other corners?

To be honest I do not think that matters at all I am a fully qualified accountant and have never worn a formal suit or formal shoes at work in 24 years & not even at The Chartered Accountants Hall or Mansion House in London .

The last time I wore anything formal was because it was mandatory at my graduation in 1996 mind you it used to drive my mum mad perhaps she was your age. I know many accountants who look the part and are hopeless in their job the same applies to drivers appearances can be deceiving @TheGrandWazoo

 

[Pat1105]

Ties are always an issue. The company I used to work for provided clip on ties as the around the neck version could prove a problem if a customer grabbed it. The problem with clip ons is that they dont fit tightly and look a bit sloppy.
In the end we had black trousers(s), branded polo shirt(s), branded fleece, and branded coat. The theory being that depending on the weather you could wear the fleece or the coat over the polo shirt. It seemed to strike the right balance between having a recogniable uniform but not having to provde the full wardrobe! As many have commented it never ceased to amaze me how a some drivers could look smart at all times and some looked as if they had been dragged through a hedge backwards.

When I was at school, we had to wear clip on ties for the same issues. I personally think clip on ties look smarter, as some people don’t seem to know how to tie a tie properly! You also have to have your top shirt button fastened if you wear a clip on. Some drivers who wear round the neck ties have their top shirt buttons undone and can look ‘scruffy’.

 

[GusB]

Please stick to the topic of uniforms and let's please not turn this into another Diamond debate.

 

[richardjones21]

It doesn’t matter whether Diamond acquired the company or not. Frankly, that is irrelevant. They are operating that service under the Diamond brand, and not that of Arriva or anyone else for that matter. They operate the service under Diamond’s licence. Diamond acquired only the Wednesfield operation from Arriva, but Arriva still operates around the UK. Therefore, the driver should be wearing the correct company uniform and is in breach of AQPS regulations set out by TfWM.

If you refer to section 2.8 and 3.1 of 2015 version
of the WMCA AQPS the driver is not in breach of the regulations as both the bus and the service were in the livery and uniform of acquisitions by the company@Pat1105

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

To be honest I do not think that matters at all I am a fully qualified accountant and have never worn a formal suit or formal shoes at work in 24 years & not even at The Chartered Accountants Hall or Mansion House in London .

The last time I wore anything formal was because it was mandatory at my graduation in 1996 mind you it used to drive my mum mad perhaps she was your age. I know many accountants who look the part and are hopeless in their job the same applies to drivers appearances can be deceiving @TheGrandWazoo

Why mention qualifications? In relation to uniforms, it not like people care about insignificant matters like that on this forum.

What is true that how people present themselves can inspire confidence in their abilities. Perhaps if you're a back office minion, then that's less of an issue, and I've not worn a uniform for a while. However, many organisations recognise the importance of uniforms for reasons of professionalism, brand awareness, company loyalty, security etc which is why they have them/insist on them.

 

[richardjones21]

Why mention qualifications? In relation to uniforms, it not like people care about insignificant matters like that on this forum.

What is true that how people present themselves can inspire confidence in their abilities. Perhaps if you're a back office minion, then that's less of an issue, and I've not worn a uniform for a while. However, many organisations recognise the importance of uniforms for reasons of professionalism, brand awareness, company loyalty, security etc which is why they have them/insist on them.

I only mentioned qualifications because my dress standards do sit with the usual expected standards of the profesesion but neither did my fellow accountant Mr Brian Souter usualy.

As management I was never issued with an uniform at Midland Red West but that never stopped me covering man duty workings when needed despite the company having a set uniform at the time my feelings the subject is subjective and most passengers could care less as long as the bus turns up!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I only mentioned qualifications because my dress standards do sit with the usual expected standards of the profesesion but neither did my fellow accountant Mr Brian Souter usualy.

As management I was never issued with an uniform at Midland Red West but that never stopped me covering man duty workings when needed despite the company having a set uniform at the time my feelings the subject is subjective and most passengers could care less as long as the bus turns up!

Just wondered why being "fully qualified" was relevant? Just being an accountant should suffice

As for having a set uniform, it is clearly important to operators and indeed other transport organisations for the reasons outlined including creating and projecting a unifying image to the general public, such as when Rotala bought Preston Bus when they said "new corporate Rotala uniforms were introduced in June with the company dress-code phased in. This has made a real difference in the public face of DBNW."

 

[richardjones21]

Just wondered why being "fully qualified" was relevant? Just being an accountant should suffice

As for having a set uniform, it is clearly important to operators and indeed other transport organisations for the reasons outlined including creating and projecting a unifying image to the general public, such as when Rotala bought Preston Bus when they said "new corporate Rotala uniforms were introduced in June with the company dress-code phased in. This has made a real difference in the public face of DBNW."

You don't actually have to have any qualifications at all to be an accountant amazingly enough which is why is always put that caveat.

Some of us have a first class honours degree in Accountancy, an MBA & play an active part as members The Institute of Chartered Accountants Of England & Wales Tax Faculty many many others in our profession don't.

As for a uniform I doubt whether my passengers couldn't care less my "uniform" was a yellow MRW Wyvern The Dragon T Shirt driving relief duty working on the MRW 192 when I was 24.

 

[GusB]

I'm of the opinion that you don't have to wear a uniform in order to do a job well, but in customer-facing roles it is essential for maintaining your company's reputation. A scruffy driver indicates either a lack of discipline or a lack of care on the part of management.

I understand that with acquisitions and suchlike that it can be difficult to impose a new corporate identity right away - we have discussed this in the 2nd hand liveries thread - but a plain-coloured polo shirt and dark coloured trousers/skirt aren't difficult to obtain in this day and age when almost all large supermarkets have a range of clothing. It is neither difficult nor expensive to have staff looking reasonably similar.

As for a uniform I doubt whether my passengers couldn't care less my "uniform" was a yellow MRW Wyvern The Dragon T Shirt driving relief duty working on the MRW 192 when I was 24.

Passengers do care, and will comment on it. Other drivers will pass judgement, as will staff from competing organisations. Going back a good few years, I overheard a conversation between a couple of drivers on a Caledonian Express service who were discussing the appearance of drivers from another CalEx contractor and how bad an impression it gave.

 

[richardjones21]

I'm of the opinion that you don't have to wear a uniform in order to do a job well, but in customer-facing roles it is essential for maintaining your company's reputation. A scruffy driver indicates either a lack of discipline or a lack of care on the part of management.

I understand that with acquisitions and suchlike that it can be difficult to impose a new corporate identity right away - we have discussed this in the 2nd hand liveries thread - but a plain-coloured polo shirt and dark coloured trousers/skirt aren't difficult to obtain in this day and age when almost all large supermarkets have a range of clothing. It is neither difficult nor expensive to have staff looking reasonably similar.


Passengers do care, and will comment on it. Other drivers will pass judgement, as will staff from competing organisations. Going back a good few years, I overheard a conversation between a couple of drivers on a Caledonian Express service who were discussing the appearance of drivers from another CalEx contractor and how bad an impression it gave.

As far as I am aware & I did stage carriage for over decade for MRW & as I was management I never wore a uniform appearance was never bought to my attention and never has in my whole career as I have never dressed formally unless you know different.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some of us have a first class honours degree in Accountancy, an MBA & play an active part as members The Institute of Chartered Accountants Of England & Wales Tax Faculty many many others in our profession don't.

As someone once said...

so who actually cares about insignificant matters like that on this forum that is futile points scoring

I'm of the opinion that you don't have to wear a uniform in order to do a job well, but in customer-facing roles it is essential for maintaining your company's reputation. A scruffy driver indicates either a lack of discipline or a lack of care on the part of management.

I understand that with acquisitions and suchlike that it can be difficult to impose a new corporate identity right away - we have discussed this in the 2nd hand liveries thread - but a plain-coloured polo shirt and dark coloured trousers/skirt aren't difficult to obtain in this day and age when almost all large supermarkets have a range of clothing. It is neither difficult nor expensive to have staff looking reasonably similar.


Passengers do care, and will comment on it. Other drivers will pass judgement, as will staff from competing organisations. Going back a good few years, I overheard a conversation between a couple of drivers on a Caledonian Express service who were discussing the appearance of drivers from another CalEx contractor and how bad an impression it gave.

You are absolutely right. Wearing a uniform doesn't preclude someone from doing a good job. However, it is certainly something that in customer facing roles (rather than us back office minions) IS important in conveying a consistent brand image and inspiring confidence.

That's why public organisations such as TfWM's or Nottingham's Quality Partnerships insist on drivers being "provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

 

[GusB]

As far as I am aware & I did stage carriage for over decade for MRW & as I was management I never wore a uniform appearance was never bought to my attention and never has in my whole career as I have never dressed formally unless you know different.....

Uniform was perhaps never brought to your attention because you were management. Who would pick on a manager for giving the wrong impression? Only a more senior manager would be able to do so. Lower ranks would mumble about it behind your back, and there would be grumblings about "rules for some and rules for others". This is where rot sets in - when the people at the top dictate to those below how Thing Should Be, yet happily turn up in a T-shirt. I'd be interested to hear about any Stagecoach drivers turning up for work in red shoes while thinking "if it's good enough for Brian"...

 

[richardjones21]

I'm of the opinion that you don't have to wear a uniform in order to do a job well, but in customer-facing roles it is essential for maintaining your company's reputation. A scruffy driver indicates either a lack of discipline or a lack of care on the part of management.

I understand that with acquisitions and suchlike that it can be difficult to impose a new corporate identity right away - we have discussed this in the 2nd hand liveries thread - but a plain-coloured polo shirt and dark coloured trousers/skirt aren't difficult to obtain in this day and age when almost all large supermarkets have a range of clothing. It is neither difficult nor expensive to have staff looking reasonably similar.


Passengers do care, and will comment on it. Other drivers will pass judgement, as will staff from competing organisations. Going back a good few years, I overheard a conversation between a couple of drivers on a Caledonian Express service who were discussing the appearance of drivers from another CalEx contractor and how bad an impression it gave.

As far as I am aware & I did stage carriage for over decade for MRW & as I was management I never wore a uniform appearance was never bought to my attention and never has in my whole career as I have never dressed formally unless you know different.....

As someone once said...





You are absolutely right. Wearing a uniform doesn't preclude someone from doing a good job. However, it is certainly something that in customer facing roles (rather than us back office minions) IS important in conveying a consistent brand image and inspiring confidence.

That's why public organisations such as TfWM's or Nottingham's Quality Partnerships insist on drivers being "provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

As for TfWM parent body as a member of the WMCA Bus Alliance I cannot remember anytime in the last five years drivers appearances were on the meetings agenda.

We have far more important matters to consider such as creating an integrated transport network for the benefit of passengers!

 

[richardjones21]

Uniform was perhaps never brought to your attention because you were management. Who would pick on a manager for giving the wrong impression? Only a more senior manager would be able to do so. Lower ranks would mumble about it behind your back, and there would be grumblings about "rules for some and rules for others". This is where rot sets in - when the people at the top dictate to those below how Thing Should Be, yet happily turn up in a T-shirt. I'd be interested to hear about any Stagecoach drivers turning up for work in red shoes while thinking "if it's good enough for Brian"...

I use the term management loosely I was a 24 year old trainee accountant who was not a union member who loved buses who just enjoyed driving them after passing my PCV I was willing to do the duty workings needed to keep our service running when cover from our professional drivers wasn't possible & we would have had to turn to other casuals.

You are totally wrong it would have been an insult to MRW professional drivers who were union members if I had turned up at Kiddy looking like a professional driver I had more respect for them and likewise to be fair as I kept in touch with many for years.

 

[GusB]

I use the term management loosely I was a 24 year old trainee accountant who was not a union member who loved buses who just enjoyed driving them after passing my PCV I was willing to do the duty workings needed to keep our service running when cover from our professional drivers wasn't possible & we would have had to turn to other casuals.

You are totally wrong it would have been an insult to MRW professional drivers who were union members if I had turned up at Kiddy looking like a professional driver I had more respect for them and likewise to be fair as I kept in touch with many for years.

Why would it be an insult to the professional drivers if you upheld the same standards which were expected of them? The mind boggles!

 

[richardjones21]

Why would it be an insult to the professional drivers if you upheld the same standards which were expected of them? The mind boggles!

It would have most likely have caused a strike!

 

[PG]

I'd be interested to hear about any Stagecoach drivers turning up for work in red shoes while thinking "if it's good enough for Brian"...

I've known Stagecoach drivers being sent home for turning up with inappropriate footwear, so yes it does happen!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why would it be an insult to the professional drivers if you upheld the same standards which were expected of them? The mind boggles!

A workforce so militant that they would strike over someone working to the same standards as is expected of them, yet so relaxed that they are happy for back office staff to do their work. It's almost unbelievable.

One of my good friends is a back office minion (and has worked in senior roles for a number of businesses) and when he's covered duties (whether that be standard bus work or extensive private hires), there is a expectation/requirement for him to wear uniform, if only to avoid the accusations of "one rule for us, another rule for the management".

I've known Stagecoach drivers being sent home for turning up with inappropriate footwear, so yes it does happen!

Indeed, have known Arriva drivers similarly dealt with.

As for TfWM parent body as a member of the WMCA Bus Alliance I cannot remember anytime in the last five years drivers appearances were on the meetings agenda.

We have far more important matters to consider such as creating an integrated transport network for the benefit of passengers!

Don't disagree there are more important matters than uniforms. However, you have to question why the WMCA Bus Alliance then specifies it?
They clearly say: " All drivers must be provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

Or do you consider it to be merely window dressing, especially if they don't then include it in meeting agendas?

 

[richardjones21]

A workforce so militant that they would strike over someone working to the same standards as is expected of them, yet so relaxed that they are happy for back office staff to do their work. It's almost unbelievable.

One of my good friends is a back office minion (and has worked in senior roles for a number of businesses) and when he's covered duties (whether that be standard bus work or extensive private hires), there is a expectation/requirement for him to wear uniform, if only to avoid the accusations of "one rule for us, another rule for the management".




Indeed, have known Arriva drivers similarly dealt with.



Don't disagree there are more important matters than uniforms. However, you have to question why the WMCA Bus Alliance then specifies it?
They clearly say: " All drivers must be provided with an appropriate uniform and operators shall use reasonable endeavours to ensure that this is worn on duty and maintained in a clean and tidy condition to promote a professional appearance."

Or do you consider it to be merely window dressing, especially if they don't then include it in meeting agendas?

As you yourself have confirmed @TheGrandWazoo the driver of your Diamond Bus you boarded was wearing an appropriate uniform of the operations that are now part of Diamond Bus & was being worn on the day you had the great pleasure of using the company.

There would therefore be of nothing of concern to the WMCA. The WMCA & the operators take the Bus Alliance extremely and undertake checks to ensure it is being followed including some by myself.

 

[Geordie driver]

Different roles require different standards, at least if the driver is wearing a uniform there is a good chance he works for the company and has not stolen the bus! Not unknown.
Do buses have keys now or can the still be taken by anyone who knows how to start them?

I have know drivers sent home for not wearing the right uniform, indeed, the only successful booking the company ever got me for was wearing a hat. Petty much?

I do think they go a bit over the top with epaulettes and ties, dark trousers and a branded polo shirt would do, especially if they kept the cab warm enough for the driver to work without a coat.

Our company insisted on name badges for a while until they realised drivers are entitled to call themselves anything they want, soon dropped.

 

[Titfield]

Of course wearing a uniform enables customers to identify staff if the customer is looking for assistance.

 

[Pat1105]

Different roles require different standards, at least if the driver is wearing a uniform there is a good chance he works for the company and has not stolen the bus! Not unknown.
Do buses have keys now or can the still be taken by anyone who knows how to start them?

I have know drivers sent home for not wearing the right uniform, indeed, the only successful booking the company ever got me for was wearing a hat. Petty much?

I do think they go a bit over the top with epaulettes and ties, dark trousers and a branded polo shirt would do, especially if they kept the cab warm enough for the driver to work without a coat.

Our company insisted on name badges for a while until they realised drivers are entitled to call themselves anything they want, soon dropped.

Some buses have a ‘security key’ that has to be inserted into the dashboard in order to start the bus. Some also have ‘secret’ buttons that have to be pressed in addition to the normal starting procedure.

As far as I am aware & I did stage carriage for over decade for MRW & as I was management I never wore a uniform appearance was never bought to my attention and never has in my whole career as I have never dressed formally unless you know different.....

As for TfWM parent body as a member of the WMCA Bus Alliance I cannot remember anytime in the last five years drivers appearances were on the meetings agenda.

We have far more important matters to consider such as creating an integrated transport network for the benefit of passengers!

Just because they weren’t on the meetings agenda, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. All too often, I see drivers on TfWM tender work wearing casual clothes, or who wear branded hoodies etc over their uniform. This goes against the points in the contract. As a member of WMCA, are you able to point out at your next meeting the poor standards of driver presentation? It is an important issue that needs to be adressed

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It is an important issue that needs to be adressed

It's certainly considered important enough to be included in the AQPS. If TfWM/WMCA (or Nottinghamshire) are then not bothered, either a) why put it in or b) what else is in there that is considered optional for operators?

I do think they go a bit over the top with epaulettes and ties, dark trousers and a branded polo shirt would do, especially if they kept the cab warm enough for the driver to work without a coat.

That's exactly my view. You don't want to overdo it and you can have a smart yet more casual and practical uniform.

I have know drivers sent home for not wearing the right uniform, indeed, the only successful booking the company ever got me for was wearing a hat. Petty much?

Generally, most drivers are happy to wear uniforms (to save buying/wearing out their own clothes). There's always the odd one who insists on trying it on (and gets sent home) and equally, you might have the occasional overly officious manager.

 

[richardjones21]

Some buses have a ‘security key’ that has to be inserted into the dashboard in order to start the bus. Some also have ‘secret’ buttons that have to be pressed in addition to the normal starting procedure.

Just because they weren’t on the meetings agenda, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. All too often, I see drivers on TfWM tender work wearing casual clothes, or who wear branded hoodies etc over their uniform. This goes against the points in the contract. As a member of WMCA, are you able to point out at your next meeting the poor standards of driver presentation? It is an important issue that needs to be adressed

I am always happy to raise any issue or concerns with the operators or authorities.

 

[Geordie driver]

I recall one local company in Tyne and Wear, Moordale, won some tendered work immediately post deregulation and expected the drivers to wear their own clothes. The drivers campaigned for a uniform and eventually got one, they weren't happy when the owner started taking money from their wages to pay for them.

 

[duncombec]

One of my good friends is a back office minion (and has worked in senior roles for a number of businesses) and when he's covered duties (whether that be standard bus work or extensive private hires), there is a expectation/requirement for him to wear uniform, if only to avoid the accusations of "one rule for us, another rule for the management".

In "normal times", the company I use to commute to work is very strict on driver appearance, but does have a variety of options (short and long-sleeved shirts, sleeveless and sleeved-jumpers, for example). Non-uniform usually equals very new trainee (i.e. first week or so out) or management. Neither particularly liked by the passengers, as the management drive so rarely they often aren't aware of where regular hold-ups occur, where regular passengers get off, etc, just as a trainee wouldn't be.

We generally see non-uniform as a cause for a good sigh!

 

[Pat1105]

I am always happy to raise any issue or concerns with the operators or authorities.

Thank you Richard, much appreciated. If regulations are there, they should be adhered to and enforced.

I recall one local company in Tyne and Wear, Moordale, won some tendered work immediately post deregulation and expected the drivers to wear their own clothes. The drivers campaigned for a uniform and eventually got one, they weren't happy when the owner started taking money from their wages to pay for them.

I think that is quite a poor attitude from the company. The operator should cover all costs to provide the initial uniform. If drivers want more items, in addition to that already provided, then I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for some sort of contribution. Some companies will only issue drivers with a certain amount of uniform each year. I think it encourages drivers to look after their uniform better and keep it in a good condition to make it last longer. NX (I think) issue drivers with additional uniform when they want, free of charge!

 

[Jessey]

Uniforms are readily available where I work but it isn't enforced as strictly as it used to be under the previous franchise.
I guess when things go wrong and in times of mass disruption some enjoy the prospect of blending into the crowd undetected.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Uniforms are readily available where I work but it isn't enforced as strictly as it used to be under the previous franchise.
I guess when things go wrong and in times of mass disruption some enjoy the prospect of blending into the crowd undetected.

Yup - just the point when the visibility of a company employee might be welcomed by the general public!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In "normal times", the company I use to commute to work is very strict on driver appearance, but does have a variety of options (short and long-sleeved shirts, sleeveless and sleeved-jumpers, for example). Non-uniform usually equals very new trainee (i.e. first week or so out) or management. Neither particularly liked by the passengers, as the management drive so rarely they often aren't aware of where regular hold-ups occur, where regular passengers get off, etc, just as a trainee wouldn't be.

We generally see non-uniform as a cause for a good sigh!

Know how you feel. It's not a reflection on the attitude of the individual (and perhaps their skills). It's about professionalism and giving your customer confidence.