Driver Salary discussion/comparisons by the public

[Astro_Orbiter]

Hi all, I've been getting quite wound up lately by commenters on various news sites, when inevitably the cost of rail fares etc is being discussed, and people feel the need to pass judgement on drivers salaries, with comments like "pointless job", "madness they get paid £50k+ for that job compared to junior airline pilots/doctors/nurses/firemen etc". "Out of proportion for what they do"
All from people who have no real idea what it is train drivers actually *do* beyond them seeing some bored looking chap sat at the front of their train apparently not doing a lot.
I find it so mind boggling irritating that people do this all the time, moreso than for any other job role. Nobody would comment on some computer using office based middle manager type who earns 70k+ for probably not adding much value to anything.
What are your thoughts on all this?
In my opinion its some kind of class based prejudice, as for all our modern and forward thinking ways in 2022 Britain, this population has been trained over generations to beat the people lower than us on the social strata, and when a traditionally working class job like train driver starts earning into middle class wages, those above want to beat them back down, and those below want to drag them back to their level.

Bit of a rant I'm sorry, just wanted to see what fellow rail colleagues thought, and how you might deal with these kinds of peopl?

 

[RJ]

Hi all, I've been getting quite wound up lately by commenters on various news sites, when inevitably the cost of rail fares etc is being discussed, and people feel the need to pass judgement on drivers salaries, with comments like "pointless job", "madness they get paid £50k+ for that job compared to junior airline pilots/doctors/nurses/firemen etc". "Out of proportion for what they do"
All from people who have no real idea what it is train drivers actually *do* beyond them seeing some bored looking chap sat at the front of their train apparently not doing a lot.
I find it so mind boggling irritating that people do this all the time, moreso than for any other job role. Nobody would comment on some computer using office based middle manager type who earns 70k+ for probably not adding much value to anything.
What are your thoughts on all this?
In my opinion its some kind of class based prejudice, as for all our modern and forward thinking ways in 2022 Britain, this population has been trained over generations to beat the people lower than us on the social strata, and when a traditionally working class job like train driver starts earning into middle class wages, those above want to beat them back down, and those below want to drag them back to their level.

Bit of a rant I'm sorry, just wanted to see what fellow rail colleagues thought, and how you might deal with these kinds of peopl?

Ignore them?

What’s wrong with “computer using office based middle manager type” people earning a good wage? For all you know they might be saving or making their company a lot more than their salary for what they do?

 

[AverageJoe]

I imagine it’s because it’s a relatively easy job that doesn’t require any previous eduction or much working up the ladder.

Those 70K office guys probably spent years in college or uni that started on 15k as apprentices and worked their way up over many years.

I think train drivers are paid a heck of a lot for what they do tbh, but I don’t begrudge them and I hope to become one.


I drive for metrolink and I have to understand block signaling, our own tram signaling, have to input codes to divert/change route (no signal man), I have to operate the doors, drive through a packed city centre, drive on the publics roads with moving traffic and we are also expected to be the security/rule enforcers on the tram.

We get paid far less than train drivers and if anything we should be on the high money

If people complain about your high wage, just smile and think, yeh I’m earning the big bucks and I’m in a peaceful job I enjoy.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Ignore them?

What’s wrong with “computer using office based middle manager type” people earning a good wage? For all you know they might be saving or making their company a lot more than their salary for what they do?

That's exactly my point, it's in no way fair for anyone to start passing judgement on job roles they have no idea about

 

[fabs]

It shouldn’t wind you up, it is what it is. End of the day these private companies and their shareholders (TOCs and FOCs) willingly pay these rates. Ignore them.

But it is a completely fair rail price increase debate when staffing costs make up around a quarter of the ticket price that produces around 2% profit for the TOC (pre covid).
It is also totally fair to debate the rights and wrongs of the sheer amount of taxpayer money ploughed into the industry during the pandemic, of which our salaries remained untouched despite doing less graft.

 

[387star]

I think there's a mentality encouraged by right wing ideology that people who work hard make their own luck and I think a lot of people who get wound up are self employed people who have in some cases worked very hard but end up adopting the view that anyone who doesn't work as hard isn't as worthy. They don't have the luxury of trade union membership. It's the same mentality those who bought council houses in the 80s have that if you work hard enough you can own a house like them although if they have kids you would have thought they'd be more in tune with realities.

Talking of trade unions this country is horribly anti Union and Conservative. The 2016 anti trade union laws proves that. The glimmer of hope is the young rising up to realise the benefits of unions and the likes of Corbyn who are their champions. Train Drivers should be applauded for not putting up with the dire conditions many people have. Of course we are lucky that we have had such a strong trade union thanks in part to the nature of the role and industry structure.

Of course train drivers work hard too. The job is exhausting and you rarely get thanks when you dump hundreds of passengers at a terminus like bus drivers do. In fact the job is very lonely and not many people could give the 100% requirss day in day out.

 

[BrokenSam]

It's just envy. Smile at the jealousy while you get into your Audi.

 

[Stigy]

Ignore them?

What’s wrong with “computer using office based middle manager type” people earning a good wage? For all you know they might be saving or making their company a lot more than their salary for what they do?

That’s exactly the point. We wouldn’t pass judgment on that role, so why is it okay for people to do it regarding driver salaries?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2022 ==

Hi all, I've been getting quite wound up lately by commenters on various news sites, when inevitably the cost of rail fares etc is being discussed, and people feel the need to pass judgement on drivers salaries, with comments like "pointless job", "madness they get paid £50k+ for that job compared to junior airline pilots/doctors/nurses/firemen etc". "Out of proportion for what they do"
All from people who have no real idea what it is train drivers actually *do* beyond them seeing some bored looking chap sat at the front of their train apparently not doing a lot.
I find it so mind boggling irritating that people do this all the time, moreso than for any other job role. Nobody would comment on some computer using office based middle manager type who earns 70k+ for probably not adding much value to anything.
What are your thoughts on all this?
In my opinion its some kind of class based prejudice, as for all our modern and forward thinking ways in 2022 Britain, this population has been trained over generations to beat the people lower than us on the social strata, and when a traditionally working class job like train driver starts earning into middle class wages, those above want to beat them back down, and those below want to drag them back to their level.

Bit of a rant I'm sorry, just wanted to see what fellow rail colleagues thought, and how you might deal with these kinds of peopl?

It’s frustrating, I agree. It also bugs me when everything is compared to emergency services or military salaries. For starters, their salaries aren’t exactly “bad”, but if we’re talking about lower paid staff deserving more, we need to start at the bottom of the NHS really for lower band roles, not Nurses who start on band 5, or junior doctors who yes, are on £25k a year, but will soon be on £60, £70, £80k at least (you don’t hear trainee drivers moaning at their terrible £25k a year training salaries….what’s so different with junior Doctors other than the fact that trainee drivers don’t have to stick catheters in?).

Driver salaries are proportionate for what we do and have to learn. If anything, we should be on more, like airline pilots .

 

[387star]

A very posh sounding old woman once talked to me and when I said I was a Train Driver she seemed really disappointed and said 'didn't you want to do something academic?' Perhaps younger people respect the role more than the older population. I can understand there being jealousy but then many people would hate the job. It's mostly mundane it's boring and mentally exhausting. I mostly love the job but I can see how some people would hate those aspects.

 

[AverageJoe]

Driver salaries are proportionate for what we do and have to learn. If anything, we should be on more, like airline pilots .

Have to disagree with that.

Yes rules and regs takes some learning but ultimately the job isn’t overly challenging.

Compare that to police, fireman, ambulance, nurses and all the daily grief that comes with their jobs for far less money.

Train drivers are paid a silly amount for what they do, and people will comment on it.

But so what, accept the fact it’s a fantastic wage and don’t worry about what others think or say.

Just think about the fact that you get more than double what bus drivers get and that can be a really stressful job and you are customer facing all day.

 

[Stigy]

Have to disagree with that.

Yes rules and regs takes some learning but ultimately the job isn’t overly challenging.

Compare that to police, fireman, ambulance, nurses and all the daily grief that comes with their jobs for far less money.

Train drivers are paid a silly amount for what they do, and people will comment on it.

But so what, accept the fact it’s a fantastic wage and don’t worry about what others think or say.

Just think about the fact that you get more than double what bus drivers get and that can be a really stressful job and you are customer facing all day.

You can disagree all you like, of course. However, until you’ve done the job, it’s very hard to understand for sure what being a train driver is about.

NHS Salaries are mostly decent, as are police and Fire service. I don’t know why people feel the need to compare. Yes they have a lot of responsibility, but on a par with driving a train.

I assume you’re not a train driver? If you are, I’m very confused by your attitude. Pilots get paid a lot more than train drivers, and there’s two of them in the cockpit! They don’t seem to get much grief from members of the public. In terms of responsibility, we have as much as any airline pilot.

Not to belittle bus drivers, as it’s a responsible job, but anyone with a driving licence can jump in a bus and drive it with a bit of training. Yes it’s customer facing, but so is driving a train. You wear a uniform so will have to deal with customers.

 

[SRH]

To be honest this whole post is Bulls**t of the highest order.

Common people arguing common people salaries is a disgrace on all levels. Will deducting a train driver salary give nurses and fireman what they deserve??? Nope

Yet when the powers that be are lining there own pockets making the lives of all common people worse nobody says boo to a goose

Makes me sick

 

[Bluejays]

You can disagree all you like, of course. However, until you’ve done the job, it’s very hard to understand for sure what being a train driver is about.

NHS Salaries are mostly decent, as are police and Fire service. I don’t know why people feel the need to compare. Yes they have a lot of responsibility, but on a par with driving a train.

I assume you’re not a train driver? If you are, I’m very confused by your attitude. Pilots get paid a lot more than train drivers, and there’s two of them in the cockpit! They don’t seem to get much grief from members of the public. In terms of responsibility, we have as much as any airline pilot.

Not to belittle bus drivers, as it’s a responsible job, but anyone with a driving licence can jump in a bus and drive it with a bit of training. Yes it’s customer facing, but so is driving a train. You wear a uniform so will have to deal with customers.

Not sure where you get the idea that all pilots are on much more than train drivers. Some are,most aren't.

 

[AverageJoe]

You can disagree all you like, of course. However, until you’ve done the job, it’s very hard to understand for sure what being a train driver is about.

NHS Salaries are mostly decent, as are police and Fire service. I don’t know why people feel the need to compare. Yes they have a lot of responsibility, but on a par with driving a train.

I assume you’re not a train driver? If you are, I’m very confused by your attitude. Pilots get paid a lot more than train drivers, and there’s two of them in the cockpit! They don’t seem to get much grief from members of the public. In terms of responsibility, we have as much as any airline pilot.

Not to belittle bud drivers, as it’s a responsible job, but anyone with a driving licence can jump in a bus and drive it with a bit of training.

No I’m not a train driver, although I know some and I drive for metrolink… yes it’s LRV but basic principles of that job apply to train driving and the ones I know who have moved on to heavy rail from metrolink have said heavy rail is far easier once you have got through rules and regs.

Pilots often self fund, they will spend an absolute fortune to gain private licence and then most of the pilots aren’t on any more than a train driver anyway. Those that are paid more than train drivers will often have to have lay overs in other countries away from their families, they can work much longer shifts and type rating training is ever changing with the technology.

You’re missing the point of what I’m saying I think. I don’t begrudge the wage you get, however I think you are fortune to earn what you do for the work actually involved. But hey I want to be doing the same job and earning the same so I’m not asking for train drivers to be paid less.

You compare it to other higher paid jobs, but then compare it to lower ones too. For what you do it’s a fantastic wage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2022 ==

To be honest this whole post is Bulls**t of the highest order.

Common people arguing common people salaries is a disgrace on all levels. Will deducting a train driver salary give nurses and fireman what they deserve??? Nope

Yet when the powers that be are lining there own pockets making the lives of all common people worse nobody says boo to a goose

Makes me sick

Please can you point out where I suggested deducting train driver wages because nurses are paid less.

 

[Lancy99]

I imagine it’s because it’s a relatively easy job that doesn’t require any previous eduction or much working up the ladder.

Those 70K office guys probably spent years in college or uni that started on 15k as apprentices and worked their way up over many years.

I think train drivers are paid a heck of a lot for what they do tbh, but I don’t begrudge them and I hope to become one.


I drive for metrolink and I have to understand block signaling, our own tram signaling, have to input codes to divert/change route (no signal man), I have to operate the doors, drive through a packed city centre, drive on the publics roads with moving traffic and we are also expected to be the security/rule enforcers on the tram.

We get paid far less than train drivers and if anything we should be on the high money

If people complain about your high wage, just smile and think, yeh I’m earning the big bucks and I’m in a peaceful job I enjoy.

I’ve done both, the jobs are totally different. You don’t even scratch the surface with rules/regs etc.

 

[SRH]

It was not an individual attack on you sir/madam.

The subject in general that makes me sick. Whether metroline, bus train tube drivers, nurses, fireman or any other blue collar jobs are paid well or badly.. under no circumstances should we be so quick to be at each other

Yet the extroadinarily rich people who make (and dont follow) the rules get free rides to which ws show no fight whatsoever towards.

I stand by my opinion

 

[Stigy]

No I’m not a train driver, although I know some and I drive for metrolink… yes it’s LRV but basic principles of that job apply to train driving and the ones I know who have moved on to heavy rail from metrolink have said heavy rail is far easier once you have got through rules and regs.

Pilots often self fund, they will spend an absolute fortune to gain private licence and then most of the pilots aren’t on any more than a train driver anyway. Those that are paid more than train drivers will often have to have lay overs in other countries away from their families, they can work much longer shifts and type rating training is ever changing with the technology.

You’re missing the point of what I’m saying I think. I don’t begrudge the wage you get, however I think you are fortune to earn what you do for the work actually involved. But hey I want to be doing the same job and earning the same so I’m not asking for train drivers to be paid less.

You compare it to other higher paid jobs, but then compare it to lower ones too. For what you do it’s a fantastic wage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2022 ==


Please can you point out where I suggested deducting train driver wages because nurses are paid less.

Driving a train is easy, I fully appreciate that (although not everybody has the aptitude to do so). What isn’t so easy is retaining concentration levels for hours on end on long distance routes, keeping a clear head when it all goes wrong and having to actually implement the rules you learned during classroom training which you don’t use every day.

Tram Drivers get decent money, don’t they? £40k a year or so? I know they do in the south. I’d say that’s fair for the responsibility, in the same way I think £50+K a year is fair for mainline train drivers.

 

[AverageJoe]

It was not an individual attack on you sir/madam.

The subject in general that makes me sick. Whether metroline, bus train tube drivers, nurses, fireman or any other blue collar jobs are paid well or badly.. under no circumstances should we be so quick to be at each other

Yet the extroadinarily rich people who make (and dont follow) the rules get free rides to which ws show no fight whatsoever towards.

I stand by my opinion

Fair enough.

There’s is plenty out there on unfair wages.

Look at criminals and drug dealers driving around in super cars living in mansions, all totally wrong.

All I was saying is for the job itself, train driving wages are excellent.

If I do move into heavy haul then I know there will be challenges and parts I dislike, but ultimately I will be feeling very grateful to get paid a very high salary for an enjoyable and not very taxing job.

I’ll leave it there.

No offence to anyone who thinks I’ve attacked their wage on here, it wasn’t intended that way.

 

[16.19]

I don’t understand someone stating driving isn’t a challenging role when they have never done the job.

 

[Stigy]

Not sure where you get the idea that all pilots are on much more than train drivers. Some are,most aren't.

If not more, certainly on a par

 

[AverageJoe]

Driving a train is easy, I fully appreciate that (although not everybody has the aptitude to do so). What isn’t so easy is retaining concentration levels for hours on end on long distance routes, keeping a clear head when it all goes wrong and having to actually implement the rules you learned during classroom training which you don’t use every day.

Tram Drivers get decent money, don’t they? £40k a year or so? I know they do in the south. I’d say that’s fair for the responsibility, in the same way I think £50+K a year is fair for mainline train drivers.

Out of curiosity then, why do you think mainline drivers should get 10K+ more than a tram driver?

I understand mainline will carry more passengers at higher speeds, at metrolink we will carry around 400ish at a max of 50mph

I also know that the rules are regs are more on heavy rail.

But for me at that point (and I’m happy to be corrected) the tables turn and metrolink becomes harder.

For example if we were to drive all the system in a day, each line terminus and back it would be more than 10 hours of driving, so we need route knowledge of that. We operate doors, we are expected to deal with upholding rules of passage, we have to drive through a major city centre and multiple town centres that are packed full of people, we drive on busy roads always have to be prepared to stop because of people driving or stepping in from of us, we have no signaller to change points and must either hand bar them or find the correct codes to put into our TMS box to detour.
We need to know our tram TMS signalling but also we use national rail so need training on line rules and signalling for that.

I think there is a lot more to tram driving in Manchester than most people think.

Oh and I wish I was on 40k

 

[Mills444]

Driver salaries are proportionate for what we do and have to learn. If anything, we should be on more, like airline pilots .

What £20k a year and drowning in debt?

 

[Stigy]

Fair enough.

There’s is plenty out there on unfair wages.

Look at criminals and drug dealers driving around in super cars living in mansions, all totally wrong.

All I was saying is for the job itself, train driving wages are excellent.

If I do move into heavy haul then I know there will be challenges and parts I dislike, but ultimately I will be feeling very grateful to get paid a very high salary for an enjoyable and not very taxing job.

I’ll leave it there.

No offence to anyone who thinks I’ve attacked their wage on here, it wasn’t intended that way.

I can understand you’re not intentionally doing it, but to say you’d be grateful for getting a great salary for not a very taxing role, isn’t an attitude I’d take to the training school with you if you’re lucky enough to get a job as a Trainee Driver.

 

[AverageJoe]

I don’t understand someone stating driving isn’t a challenging role when they have never done the

I can understand you’re not intentionally doing it, but to say you’d be grateful for getting a great salary for not a very taxing role, isn’t an attitude I’d take to the training school with you if you’re lucky enough to get a job as a Trainee Driver.

Fair enough, I will certainly take that on board. Thanks

 

[dctraindriver]

I earn a lot more than I used to in an extremely stressful and responsible job. My partner is a band 6 nurse and her take home pay isn’t great for the area we live in. She works so much harder than me. Works over her hours for no extra pay and comes home shattered after working a 14 hour day on ICU. The junior Doctors are working tremulously long hours until they get to a decent salary. I don’t think they earn enough for the responsibility they have and decision making during the course of a long day.

I’m extremely grateful for my salary which was negotiated through my union. My shifts are dire at times and while the task of driving isn’t particularly taxing what are factors to bear in mind is time management, managing sleep patterns akin to constant jet lag, making decisions when things go wrong (and they do), knowing my rules, sectional appendices applicable to degraded working. I’m paid well and I know I’m paid well and I’m grateful I’m paid well.

It’s a responsible job, maintaining concentration throughout every trip.

I’m proud of what I do, and I never ever worry what others say about my occupation. I’d be more concerned about what attempts might be made by the Treasury in the next couple of years in regards to T&Cs…..

 

[AverageJoe]

I can understand you’re not intentionally doing it, but to say you’d be grateful for getting a great salary for not a very taxing role, isn’t an attitude I’d take to the training school with you if you’re lucky enough to get a job as a Trainee Driver.

Just to add to the point I made about taxing as I don’t want it to come across wrong.

My previous job was very physical, I’d come home with aches and pains and still be feeling it the next day going to work.

Since moving to metrolink, as you say concentration is a must, so I go home feeling more mentally tired than my previous job, but physically I feel great.

So that was my point of taxing.

I feel that with regular exercise and a healthy diet I’m able to maintain concentration and not be completely drained by the end of even a 10 hour shift on the trams, so for me, this job is less taxing than me previous.

 

[AM9]

It seems that any thread here that passes a comment about drivers' pay degenerates into this sort of standoff. I worked in a 'white collar' engineering role all, my working life. The pay wasn't fabulous but it was regular and reliable. I'm now retired and all of the differences that I saw in salaries mean nothing now.
Anybody has the right to comment on another's pay (either actual or perceived), just as that other person has the right to ignore such comments. There are no other 'rights' involved, the commentator does not need to have done the job in order to express their opinion, - nor would the defender have to have done the job(s) that theirs was being compared to.
For those that don't like the criticism of their salary, just ignore it, - it won't make any difference to the actual pay that is drawn any more than ranting about comparisons will.

 

[thejuggler]

In a country which offers opportunities for anyone to achieve whatever they wish I have never understood salary envy.

 

[16.19]

It seems that any thread here that passes a comment about drivers' pay degenerates into this sort of standoff. I worked in a 'white collar' engineering role all, my working life. The pay wasn't fabulous but it was regular and reliable. I'm now retired and all of the differences that I saw in salaries mean nothing now.
Anybody has the right to comment on another's pay (either actual or perceived), just as that other person has the right to ignore such comments. There are no other 'rights' involved, the commentator does not need to have done the job in order to express their opinion, - nor would the defender have to have done the job(s) that theirs was being compared to.
For those that don't like the criticism of their salary, just ignore it, - it won't make any difference to the actual pay that is drawn any more than ranting about comparisons will.

In general drivers don’t take much notice of salary discussion, however when it’s a none-driver stating driving isn’t challenging, and thus has no experience of such, it will always raise peoples eyebrows, especially on here.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Driver salaries are proportionate for what we do and have to learn. If anything, we should be on more, like airline pilots

I’m not sure the pilots is a fair comparison as most are saddled with debt having had to pay for their own training which train drivers don’t.