Driver riding a Virgin

[Ticket Man]

then I couldn't see them having too much difficulty getting a couple of people into driver positions at Virgin Trains... :?

i could see them having plenty of difficulty, have you ever applied to be a pendo driver, no because no pendo driver ever leaves, dead mans boots only and even then youve got to be pally pally with virgin staff

 

[ukrob]

i could see them having plenty of difficulty, have you ever applied to be a pendo driver, no because no pendo driver ever leaves, dead mans boots only and even then youve got to be pally pally with virgin staff

You don't have to work for Virgin to know how enough about how to drive a Pendolino. Much the same as you don't have to work for an airline to hijack and use a plane as a flying bomb.

 

[Skie]

Well if someone did break into a driving cab during a journey, you would hope the driver would have the presence of mind to slap the trains brakes into emergency, or at the very least try to get a message off via CSR/NRN's emergency broadcast.

As for the Sun, its trash. I suspect this was someone in the rear cab having a "peruse" of a mag, and its been spun into a 125mph disaster waiting to happen.

 

[yorkie]

More "expert" opinion, I see.

I'm not an "expert" and neither are you. I didn't claim to be.

But my point is that people seem to have conveniently forgotten that the IRA caused massive disruption on a regular basis. That should not be forgotten. But now in 2009 "terrorism" is given as an excuse to restrict our civil liberties in a way that was not the case when we were under constant threat by the IRA!

For example in the period of 1 month in 1997:

• 26 March 1997: The IRA carried out a double bomb attack on a mainline railway and signal box in Wilmslow, England. There was also a hoax bomb alert on the main Doncaster line. The attacks caused major and widespread railway and traffic disruption.[459][460]
• 18 April 1997: A series of bombs and bomb alerts brought Britains transport system to a halt and effectively cut all the main routes connecting England to Scotland. Bomb alerts closed large sections of the M6 motorway. A bomb blast closed Leeds railway station while a bomb blast at a rail bridge in Doncaster halted both rail and motorway traffic.[461]
• 21 April 1997: IRA bomb hoaxes almost entirely closed down Londons transport links. King's Cross, St. Pancras, Charing Cross, Paddington, Baker Street and all three railway stations at Watford junction were evacuated due to bomb alerts. Soon after alerts closed Gatwick, Stansted and parts of Heathrow airports. By 9am, at the height of the rush hour, London was `gridlocked' with a ten mile jam on the M25.[462]

Why are these events forgotten and why should we restrict our freedom far more now than we did then?

 

[kestrel]

It all depends on how knowledgeable the person in the cab is with the systems whether the signaller can stop the train or not, I did read a story of an enthusiast driving trains on the southern with an illegally gained uniform by relieving drivers at certain points (excuse the pun), this went on for weeks I believe before the person was rumbled.
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Too much information in the current climate of terrorism, can these posts of train systems be deleted please?
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You won't get a message on the NRN but an emergency braodcast, you may be confusing this with CSR (Cab secure radio)

I'm using CSR as an example, we don't have NRN on ours

 

[Metroland]

Well I do know the answer to this, because I have to do it in real life. The answer is, with any runaway train, if you cannot stop it any other way: everything else is stopped and you find a place to derail it that will cause the minimum damage.

TCB reg 5.1

5.1 Immediate actions

If you become aware, or you suspect, that a train or vehicle
is proceeding without authority, or a train is running in two or
more portions, you must:

• place or keep signals at danger against the train or vehicle and
any other trains that could be put in danger
• if necessary, arrange for train radio messages to be sent
• if possible, alter the position of any points to divert trains and
prevent collisions
• take the necessary action for any level crossings
• take any other possible action to reduce the risk of a collision.

You must decide in which order to carry out these instructions
depending on the circumstances.

 

[37401]

aye there was a runaway 25 down in Cornwall some time ago they diverted it into the bay at plymouth where it collided with a unit and exploded

 

[Metroland]

Sounds extremely dumb. The best places tend to be empty sidings, but you don't always have the luxury of choice. Thankfully, these days, runaways are extremely rare. Train Hijacks are even more rare, the last significant one being 1963. The last major runaway being bog junction, Carlisle, in the 1970s.

 

[yorkie]

aye there was a runaway 25 down in Cornwall some time ago they diverted it into the bay at plymouth where it collided with a unit and exploded

Is the incident report available online? It would make interesting reading to see whether there was a better option (I suspect there would have been!)

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Dirty man ah!

In my opinion he should loose his job and be banned for driving a pendolino (Im guessing) without paying attention,I wonder what the next driver will find down the back of the seat of that certain loco,it certainly wont be "Chat" magazine,and it on the seat it certainly wont be icing sugar will it!.
Regards

 

[O L Leigh]

I'm not an "expert" and neither are you. I didn't claim to be.

No, indeed. And nor did I. It just concerns me when other people who are clearly not experts blithely tell me that something is so and to simply take their word for it.

But my point is that people seem to have conveniently forgotten that the IRA caused massive disruption on a regular basis. That should not be forgotten. But now in 2009 "terrorism" is given as an excuse to restrict our civil liberties in a way that was not the case when we were under constant threat by the IRA!

Unfortunately we are now facing a different type of threat. The IRA were not out to cause massive loss of life. They'd plant a bomb somewhere and then call up the Police to tell them so that the area could be evacuated. That's not to say that people didn't die as a consequence of IRA activity, but their main purpose was to attack buildings and infrastructure.

Today things are different. The targets and tactics have changed and so, as a consequence, have the methods for combating them. The problem is that, as a member of the public, I have no way of knowing if the Police methods now are proportionate, too heavy-handed or actually not quite tight enough. Likewise we shouldn't assume that just because something has never been attempted before or we wouldn't be able to conceive of a reason for a particular type of attack, just such an incident will not happen. Being vigilant is everyone's responsibility.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

Is the incident report available online? It would make interesting reading to see whether there was a better option (I suspect there would have been!)

The Carlisle incident, which I was on about earlier was 1st may 1984. Can't find anything more on the Plymouth accident at present, but details of the Carlisle accident are below:

===

Plans are being drawn up to erect a memorial to honour a signalman whose quick-thinking actions averted a major rail disaster in Carlisle 25 years ago this month.

The family of Willie Taylor would like to see a plaque put up at the city’s Citadel Station, which was saved from a high-speed disaster.

A runaway freight train was hurtling towards the station at more than 60 mph. Mr Taylor and his team at a signal box near Crown Street had four minutes to decide how to avoid a major disaster in the early hours of May 1, 1984.

Mr Taylor, of Ullswater Road, took the decision to divert the runaway train onto a goods track to take it away from the main line.

The train ploughed into a bridge over the River Caldew, just yards from the centre of the city. The remaining parts of the bridge stayed in place for more than 20 years and could be clearly seen from Nelson Bridge. They were only recently dismantled and removed as part of the city’s major flood defence works.

Mr Taylor died a year after the incident following a battle with cancer. He was 58. His widow Emma died in 2000.

The couple’s surviving children – sons David, Ian and Michael and their sister Margaret – have approached Virgin Trains, the current operator of the West Coast Main Line, to see what can be done.

They received a reply from the firm’s chief executive Tony Collins on Friday.

David Taylor, who works in the rail industry, said: “It was a major incident at the time. It pulled the bridge down and people in Denton Holme had to be evacuated.

“I know it created quite a bit of havoc at the time. I remember coming home from school and I couldn’t get in the garden for all the vans and reporters around the house, wanting to speak to my dad.

“The men in the signal box realised that if they allowed the train to continue it would have crashed into the station and probably demolished some of it. They also knew that there would have been people milling about in the station waiting for the 6am train to Euston.”

He added: “I know my dad found it quite hard afterwards – he was very stressed about it. He wasn’t the type of person to look for publicity. This was part of his job and he had many years of experience.

“He knew that it was going to be some sort of major incident whatever decision he took that day and he had to make it quickly.

“Despite the amount it must have cost to do all the repairs – one of the biggest cranes in Europe was needed to lift the wreckage out of the river – there were no fatalities.”

Bosses at Virgin are hoping that a memorial may be ready in time to be unveiled at a community rail festival planned for Carlisle in September.

Regional communications manager Allan McLean said: “We are looking at Mr Taylor’s request and we hope to be able to commemorate this as part of a display at the rail festival.”

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/p...eenager_seriously_hurt_in_crash_near_longtown

 

[TDK]

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this site. Terrorism is not blowing up buildings, it is not crashing planes or trains, nor is it killing people. Terrorism is exactly what you have just done by making that post.

Whatever you think, describing the safety systems within the cab environment should not be posted, I should have put "the risk of terrorism" or "the risk of terrorists gainaing access to a train cab"

 

[37401]

i just noticed the url: sex-act-at-wheel-of-speeding-train, so he was the driver secondman then
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Dirty man ah!

In my opinion he should loose his job and be banned for driving a pendolino

I doubt it was anything wrong, i agree with the majority of posts i think the TM just went in and saw the Driver with "Nuts" or "zoo" or something or other

 

[The_Stig]

If he had his trousers round his ankles 'enjoying' himself then fair enough for having him suspended.

If he just had a mag visible in the cab then I thinks its a bit over-kill.

 

[37401]

If he had his trousers round his ankles 'enjoying' himself then fair enough for having him suspended.

If he just had a mag visible in the cab then I thinks its a bit over-kill.

Nope it wasnt VirginTrainFreak so no "Enjoyment" at the controls only kidding pal, but i agree woth you there Stig (also Mr VTF is a good mate of mine so noone take this seriously)

 

[mathmo]

Whatever you think, describing the safety systems within the cab environment should not be posted, I should have put "the risk of terrorism" or "the risk of terrorists gainaing access to a train cab"

If by "safety systems within the cab environment" you mean DRA, AWS, TPWS etc then I learnt much more than has been posted on here by playing BVE and reading associated webpages for about an hour! It's not exactly rocket science!

 

[ukrob]

Whatever you think, describing the safety systems within the cab environment should not be posted, I should have put "the risk of terrorism" or "the risk of terrorists gainaing access to a train cab"

You had better let Wikipedia know then. It took me fifteen seconds to find what I wrote in ten times as much detail.

You are doing exactly what terrorists want.

 

[332 > 444]

I reckon it is more ikely he had a magazine in the cab. Not that he was looking at it. And when the TM saw it, he told someone else at the depot and it got exaggerated.

Although why is the TM going into the driver's cab anyway? Unless he/she was called by the driver to go there, they shouldn't be there, and it is unlikely the driver would have called them if they were in a compromising position. Cab to cab phone is for the purpose of speaking to the driver.

I saw this article in our restroom and thought exactly the same thing, if thats the case, shouldn't the TM get in trouble as he wasn't authorised to go in the cab?

 

[Broken Viking]

i could see them having plenty of difficulty, have you ever applied to be a pendo driver, no because no pendo driver ever leaves, dead mans boots only and even then youve got to be pally pally with virgin staff

Well, that's a bit unfair on those of us who'd love to become Pendo drivers, isn't it? I know that job security and wages are two of the better perks of working at VT, but why should that make a drivers position a total "no-go" to any of us here?

Fortunateley I have two pretty unique selling points:...

1. I'm willing - And able - To work for very close to the minimum wage, and
2. Being someone who is not a Christian, I'm perfectly happy to work for the same wage on Saturdays, Sundays and all Christian holidays (Easter, Xmas etc) as well!

Special offer!
Super Apex driver now available at a very good price. Good knowlege of WCML between EUS-PRE, with relative knowlege PRE-GLC, several diversionary paths, and a number of other high-speed lines included at no extra charge. Excellent attitude to maintaining on-time working, especially when using tilting-body stock. Includes option to upgrade to higher-speed working with no additional suppliments. Buy now and secure for thyself first-rate rail travel for a fraction of the normal price!
This driver type is available seven days a week and during all Christian holidays for a limited time only whilst available stocks last. This offer may not be available during significant dates in the Asatrú calendar, and certain other Pagan holidays. This offer is also valid for the ECML and most other high speed lines with rolling stock capable of speeds exceeding 125mph, and Class 14x vehicles with true free coast in neutral used on lines with steep downhill grades. Please note that some lines may require certain upgrades and suppliments to achieve maximum efficiency and minimum journey times with this driver type - More information is available upon request.

Well I do know the answer to this, because I have to do it in real life. The answer is, with any runaway train, if you cannot stop it any other way: everything else is stopped and you find a place to derail it that will cause the minimum damage.

Or alternatively; Give me solo possession of a 66 (As most people don't like 'em anyway) and route me straight into the path of the runaway. Given my inclination for high closing speeds though, I wouldn't be able to guarentee causing "minimum damage" with that approach... hock:

TCB reg 5.1 / 5.1 Immediate actions:
If you become aware, or you suspect, that a train or vehicle is proceeding without authority, or a train is running in two or more portions, you must: ...

I'd better start giving Woking box a bell about those Sunday services to Basingstoke and Alton then - Under the quoted rule, they should all be stopped and immobilised as they enter Woking as a single consist, but leave Woking in multiple portions! hock::razz:

aye there was a runaway 25 down in Cornwall some time ago they diverted it into the bay at plymouth where it collided with a unit and exploded

Didn't someone else on this forum report spotting a stolen 66 a while ago?

From what I can recall, his up service from Doncaster was delayed by half an hour for unexplained reasons, a 66 with a chav at the controls came flying through (With the chav giving everyone the finger, naturally!) and apparently the OP spotted the same 66 sat in one of the platforms at Kings Cross when his delayed service arrived there! hock:

If he had his trousers round his ankles 'enjoying' himself then fair enough for having him suspended. If he just had a mag visible in the cab then I thinks its a bit over-kill.

Call me foolish if ye want...But if I found out that the driver of any Pendolino service that I'd used had been "enjoying" himself in the cab during the journey, then I wouldn't be nearly as concerned as a lot of other people. hock:

Consider the control desk arrangement inside a 390: Pendos use one of those "integrated" speed controllers (Brake and accellerator combined in a single lever) which is mounted on the left side of the desk, thus normally operated using the driver's left hand. I can't remember where the AWS acknowlegement and cancel buttons are located, but I think that vigilance is done via a foot pedal in 390s...As with most other trains.

To conclude: As long as the driver is giving enough concentration to driving the train safely and properly - And that he's able to do that with his left hand and foot alone - I personally don't give a monkeys about whatever he might be using his other hand for. As someone who'd jump at the chance to take a Pendo out for a spin though, I would ask any drivers so inclined to show due courtesy to subsequent drivers of that unit; Take a few baby wipes, an old carrier bag for the seat, and possibly a sheath or two... hock:8)

 

[Metroland]

I personally don't give a monkeys about whatever he might be using his other hand for. As someone who'd jump at the chance to take a Pendo out for a spin though, I would ask any drivers so inclined to show due courtesy to subsequent drivers of that unit; Take a few baby wipes, an old carrier bag for the seat, and possibly a sheath or two... hock:8)

Well as I've said, I don't believe it, I think its a mess room tale that has been spun out of control. Considering the driving grade is among the top 10% earners in the country, you would think they would want to present a professional image.

A lot of the public already think they are strike happy over paid chancers, Bob Crow etc doesn't help, tales like this do little to present a positive image.

 

[jon0844]

Bob Crow is an unashamed communist that uses any opportunity to 'justify' the need for renationalisation. I'd say he was a strike happy over paid chancer, but can never quite understand if/why the union members think the same way.

 

[O L Leigh]

Hmm. It's not so straightforward as that.

We've had blokes pushed out the door for their first offence. No action plans, no attempt to address any underlying issues, just given the "tin tack" right away. And that's wrong. If the bloke had committed some act of gross misconduct or already had a string of similar incidents then perhaps he isn't cut out for driving and, provided he'd been given a fair crack of the whip, there may come a time when you're defending the indefensible and have to conclude that maybe the guy just isn't cut out for train driving.

Admittedly we almost never get to learn the true details because we have to rely on the media who would, given half the chance, spend the whole time sniggering behind their hands. Consequently there is absolutely no way to judge this driver's conduct, particularly when the coverage has so many holes in it.

O L Leigh

 

[Metroland]

Well yep, I'm not sure if they still run a points system, I suspect it all depends on other issues, but certainly serious incidents (and this is one, if it's true) would almost certainly end in termination of employment. The railway discipline system is very unforgiving, which is one reason I guess Mr Crow recieves such support.

 

[TDK]

Well yep, I'm not sure if they still run a points system, I suspect it all depends on other issues, but certainly serious incidents (and this is one, if it's true) would almost certainly end in termination of employment. The railway discipline system is very unforgiving, which is one reason I guess Mr Crow recieves such support.

The railway discipline system is different for each TOC and Mr. Crow does not get my support as I am in the the TRAIN DRIVERS union ASLEF as are a majority of drivers. Also it isn't for anyone apart from the managment of VT to ascetain how serious an incident is, there are certain rules that will dissmiss a railway worker instantly if he/she is found guilty and I have not read anywhere within any of the companies discipliniary procedure that the incident this driver has aledgedly been accused of being one of them unless it is deemed as gross misconduct. I would certainly support his case if he was in my branch.

 

[156499]

owww some people, untill the full story is released or untill you have actually been at the driving position go back to trainspotting!

 

[sidthesyphon]

Dirty man ah!

In my opinion he should loose his job and be banned for driving a pendolino (Im guessing) without paying attention,I wonder what the next driver will find down the back of the seat of that certain loco,it certainly wont be "Chat" magazine,and it on the seat it certainly wont be icing sugar will it!.
Regards

Story I've heard is the Driver was in the *rear* cab at the time of the incident- not going to say more than this...

 

[Phoenix]

aye there was a runaway 25 down in Cornwall some time ago they diverted it into the bay at plymouth where it collided with a unit and exploded

Sure your don't mean the Chester General Rail crash ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_General_rail_crash
A class 24 Hauling a Kerosene and petrol train had a brake failure and went trhough a set of Points into a DMU destroying the loco and it's train not to mention the DMU and a large section of the station.

If not then be interesting to see the details on the cornwall incident