Driver refusing request to call at additional stations - is this really a thing?

[ComUtoR]

Phoning three times and getting a different person answering each call during disruption isn't helpful,

Trying 3 times and getting no answer is worthless. Too many times, delays in communication will result in a cancellation, rather than a quick stop order or a quick 'make your next working'

Disruption really does escalate over time. What really annoys me the most is that passengers can often have more information that I do. If I cannot communicate with my own control, then I'm stuffed. I have email and even WhatsApp.

We have systems of communication that go by the wayside. It's also a broken system because any kind of diversion tend to need authorisation. Signallers will bump decisions to our control and vice versa. Even worse for faults. I have to make 3 phone calls for a decision I already know through experience, what will happen

 

[Need2]

Drivers or guards can and do/did decide to stop. It happened to me at New Milton on a CrossCountry Voyager once. Myself and a young lady were going to miss the last train back from Bournemouth - New Milton (the last from Brockenhurst had already gone) due to serious delays so the guard told the driver to stop for us at New Milton. We were ushered out of the driver's cab as the guard said control would find out and ask questions if he opened the passenger doors.

That is a completely different scenario than the one being discussed. (Very dodgy but I can see why)
I can’t think of anyone I know who would decide to stop/not stop for the whole train.

 

[Llanigraham]

There is a stark difference between adding more staff into the decision making process and adding more staff to reduce workload.

From a Traincrew perspective, when I call control, I need it answered. What happens during disruption is that the phone rarely gets answered because there isn't enough people to do the basic task of answering the phone. The fallout from control not answering can be very detrimental.

Information during these times is also critical. Would it be better to have information from 3 Drivers in a 2 minute window or have one person take 6 minutes instead ? This is certainly where too many cooks need to be balanced.

However, control points can be quite heirachical. At my TOC I know who the top of the tree is. But is one person on the shift really enough ? Their workload must be huge. Whilst we split Mainline/Metro it's still a nightmare for control.

I'm the end user so I need efficient decision making and a quick response time.

Quite often during disruption im waiting on control to make a decision. I understand passenger frustration but I assure you. Traincrew are just as frustrated.

And I would add to that, that the same applies to the signalling staff, especially those out in the sticks and not at the larger Contol Centres.

 

[bramling]

I think people seriously overestimate the public's capacity for having sympathy with issues which the TOC could easily resolve by employing sufficient staff to cope with forseeable situations.

£££££££

It isn’t just control staff. Back in the not massively distant past, station staff were actually able to do stuff, involving themselves in the actual operation of the railway. There’s still a few places where elements of this still occurs, but it’s now few and far between. London Underground is rapidly going the same way, though they still at least make some attempt to have operationally qualified station staff.

As I said elsewhere, there is a reluctance to pay to have large numbers of people sitting around doing little when everything is running well, and to pay for training and ongoing competence management for people who will use these skills relatively rarely. Open question to everyone - are people prepared to pay more in fares for all this?

The other issue in relation to control is too many cooks spoiling the broth. Too many control staff can also be a problem, though if everyone knows what their specific area of responsibility is then this is manageable.

 

[VP185]

I’ll stop additionally if asked by pretty much any member of staff…. verbally, via paper slip, GSM-R by anyone guard, train manager, station staff, control or signaller.

I‘ve also refused once because the train manager was in the rear set of the train when it was asked to.

I’ve asked for a stop order as well and been refused. I even explained the SSO was needed to pick up the train manager who was booked to work the train back. Control refused, I don’t think they liked being told by someone who knew more than they did. Regardless to say, i waved to the train manager as we sped through the station and ended up working ECS back! The same chap was still on in Control when i was waiting to work back, an interesting conversation. ”you know the stop order you refused…….”

 

[noddingdonkey]

As I said elsewhere, there is a reluctance to pay to have large numbers of people sitting around doing little when everything is running well, and to pay for training and ongoing competence management for people who will use these skills relatively rarely. Open question to everyone - are people prepared to pay more in fares for all this?

Shouldn't the saving in delay minutes, delay repay and admin in handling complaints offset the cost?

If screwing up is cheaper than doing the job properly something is very wrong.

 

[Efini92]

Thanks,. I'm always interested in TAS/DAS stuff. I don't usually hear anything positive.



Our control will send the CONTACT message, then we call them.

I've had many many Signallers calling on the approach to a Red. It's the nature of the beast. I much prefer the CONTACT SIGNALLER approach. Which, in all honesty, is becoming more common.

My experience of DAS was pretty poor. Some of the speeds were incorrect and newer stations were missing completely off it.

 

[bramling]

Shouldn't the saving in delay minutes, delay repay and admin in handling complaints offset the cost?

Clearly not. Though of course things are never quite that simple. There is quite an endemic culture through the industry which fails to understand let alone appreciate the extent to which control workload increases during disruption.

 

[VP185]

My experience of DAS was pretty poor. Some of the speeds were incorrect and newer stations were missing completely off it.

DAS always makes me smile when it advises us to ’COAST’ up a long 1 in 42 gradient!

 

[Surreytraveller]

Adding to this, I've never in my 11 years called control and had an answer from the person who picked up the phone without them needing to ask someone else

Are you ringing the correct number? Having said that, anything a TOC wants to do does need to be agreed by Network Rail