Driver misses station

[Lawman]

Folks,

l don't want to name the station in this incident just incase some wee train driver gets a row. My girlfriend is on the train heading home from work today. The train was supposed to stop at a certain station however the train flies past station. Train has went past station maybe 1/4 of a mile and then the driver slams on brakes to halt train. (not to many standing passengers amusement).

Driver then walks from one end of the train to the other and drives train back to the station.

Is this a big deal?

 

[strange6]

Folks,

l don't want to name the station in this incident just incase some wee train driver gets a row. My girlfriend is on the train heading home from work today. The train was supposed to stop at a certain station however the train flies past station. Train has went past station maybe 1/4 of a mile and then the driver slams on brakes to halt train. (not to many standing passengers amusement).

Driver then walks from one end of the train to the other and drives train back to the station.

Is this a big deal?

Would he not have had to ask permission from the signaller concerned first?

 

[Jordy]

Yes he would definitely have to do that first!

 

[Lawman]

oh yeah.. the conductor had announced over the tannoy that there were awaiting to hear from the signaller. It appeared to many passengers that the condcutor was making it out to be a signalling problem and not a driver error.

The driver and conductor were having a wee giggle about it afterwards.

How common is this?

 

[Greenback]

I believe it's not as uncommon as many people think!

 

[CarterUSM]

The walk of shame..........

 

[Lawman]

The walk of shame..........

Carter, The driver had a pure beamer!

 

[CarterUSM]

Carter, The driver had a pure beamer!

That is why the Conductor was giggling no doubt, i would struggle not to myself.

 

[strange6]

I have never had this happen to me. However, I have been on quite a number of trains when the exact opposite has happened i.e the driver stops or nearly stops at a station he is not supposed to stop at. Moorside in Manchester frequently catches a lot of drivers out due to it being the only station on the line where services infrequently stop at

 

[CNX]

When I worked in the industry, over shooting a station was classed in the same category as passing a signal at danger, and treated as such.

The only difference between it and an SPD is the driver can say he misread his timetable, though that's not going to hold water if its on an 'all trains call at all stations' route.

 

[Whistler40145]

I thought that on the occasions this happened, depending how far past the station the train had travelled, passengers would be detrained at the next station

I was under the impression that unless the line was bi-directional signalled, then the train couldn't have reversed, even with permission from the signal box.

 

[Hydro]

The signalman can give permission for a train to set back.

 

[Whistler40145]

Thanks

Therefore the only time a train couldn't reverse would be if the proceeding train was already in section?

 

[CarterUSM]

Thanks

Therefore the only time a train couldn't reverse would be if the proceeding train was already in section?

The train may set back if the overun is no more than a quarter mile, it will not pass over an automatic level crossing, and crucially , with permission from the signalman.

 

[O L Leigh]

Is this a big deal?

Not really. It sounds like it's been done by the book so all the relevant authorities will already know about this driver's little mistake.

However, it can be more of a big deal for the passengers who will inevitably be delayed and, depending on the driver's record so far, the driver once he's got back to the depot and seen by the management. Staton overruns can be seen as precursor events leading up to that driver having a SPAD, so there almost certainly will be a certain amount of time given over to understanding this event and seeing how this driver can avoid having making any other mistakes.

O L Leigh

 

[TDK]

When I worked in the industry, over shooting a station was classed in the same category as passing a signal at danger, and treated as such.

The only difference between it and an SPD is the driver can say he misread his timetable, though that's not going to hold water if its on an 'all trains call at all stations' route.

That must have been a long time ago - a SPAD is treated totally different from a fail to call. A fail to call used to be treated the same as a station over run but the company I used to do standards for separated these as different. If a driver has a fail to call they are normally questioned on the event and then specially monitored for a length of time, if a driver has a SPAD depending on the circumstances the driver will be taken off track until all investigations are completed and then allowed to return but once again will be specially monitored, this is different for every driver and every SPAD as all are different.

 

[GB]

The train may set back if the overun is no more than a quarter mile, it will not pass over an automatic level crossing, and crucially , with permission from the signalman.

I believe the location of points plays a part in the decision to set back or not also.

 

[js47604]

When I worked in the industry, over shooting a station was classed in the same category as passing a signal at danger, and treated as such.

The only difference between it and an SPD is the driver can say he misread his timetable, though that's not going to hold water if its on an 'all trains call at all stations' route.

I've been driving 25 years ans spoken to many who were around way before and a missed station has never been in the same category as passing a signal at danger.If taken in isolation not a serious incident at all,if he's got a dodgy record may be given some retraining etc.

 

[t o m]

When I was waiting at Bedford station, last year, a train that was supposed to stop didn't. It just slowed down as though it was going to stop and then sped up and went. They said it was a 'technical fault'.

 

[CNX]

That must have been a long time ago - a SPAD is treated totally different from a fail to call. A fail to call used to be treated the same as a station over run but the company I used to do standards for separated these as different. If a driver has a fail to call they are normally questioned on the event and then specially monitored for a length of time, if a driver has a SPAD depending on the circumstances the driver will be taken off track until all investigations are completed and then allowed to return but once again will be specially monitored, this is different for every driver and every SPAD as all are different.

Yes, it was the mid 1990's. But the principles were the same, if the driver admitted misjudgment or misreading the timetable then it was one thing, but, if he blamed the set, it would heve been sent for a brake and speedo test as soon as possible, just as if it was an SPD. Station over runs were actually quite rare.

 

[LexyBoy]

This has just reminded me of something last week that made me chuckle. Platform 2 at Didcot Parkway, waiting for the 1753 (exp. 1801). There had been significant disruption at some point, but trains seemed to be running normally from Didcot at least.

At 1755, suddenly the CIS changes to show the next train being 1757 (exp 1757) – which is odd, since there’s no such train scheduled.

1757, sure enough – “The train now approaching platform 2 is the 1757 to London Paddington. This train is the service from Bristol Temple Meads”. Train appears, slowly trundling up to the platform… and along the platform… and past the platform towards London – whilst the announcement goes on “The train now standing at platform 2…”

Bemused looks all around! Case of the signaller deciding to add a stop but not telling the driver?

(Equally it's not that uncommon for trains to make unscheduled stops at Didcot without any notice - only a "Stand back" warning!)

 

[anthony263]

I am sure i read somewhere back in 2010 about some FGW services accidently passing through Didcot with passengers having to travel back from Swindon

 

[CNX]

I've been driving 25 years ans spoken to many who were around way before and a missed station has never been in the same category as passing a signal at danger.If taken in isolation not a serious incident at all,if he's got a dodgy record may be given some retraining etc.

As far as we were concerned, there was no difference, as the driver didn't stop when he should have done. It was a very rare occurrence, he would be interviewed by a traction inspector, and the matter taken from there. Although I was not familiar with procedures relating to the follow up of such incidents, I would have thought that some form of reference to it would be made on the drivers record, and deleted after a set period, provided there were no more similar incidents involving him in that period. A bit like points on a driving license.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I expect the big issue is the exact circumstances and similarities with possible SPADs. Basically if a similar situation on approaching a red signal would likely have lead to a SPAD, then it would be treated like a SPAD, yet if it's entirely different then it will be treated differently. As an example, if a train slips through a station due to poor adheasion or as a result of poor train handling (or both) then the chances are had the starting signal been at danger then there would have been a SPAD. If on the other hand the driver simply forgets about a stop, then it's quite different to SPAD.

Also, whilst missing a station might not be a safety issue, it's still a commercial and customer service issue, and will have limits to tollerance, especially depending on the exact consequences. As with most companies, the difference between "mistakes happen" and taking a matter very seriously will be very slim. Oviously the outcome will tend to depend on if it's an individual who is making a lot of "mistakes" or it's a wider problem (training, proceedures etc).

 

[CosherB]

Happened to a fiend of mine. Train failed to call at Alderley Edge so he 'pulled the cord'. They let the Alderley passengers off at Chelford (next station, where the train was not due to stop).

But is a station over-run treated as a SPAD? I was waiting for the Virgin train to Euston at Wilmslow many years ago. It came in braking too late and stopped with only the second class section (mk3s) in the station (the DVT and first half of the train stopped beyond the platform). There were a few minutes of confusion before the doors were unlocked and we boarded via the second class and walked up to 1st.

 

[northernrail]

It happend to me last year at castleton, it took about 20 minutes to get clearence back into the station.

 

[Flamingo]

I am sure i read somewhere back in 2010 about some FGW services accidently passing through Didcot with passengers having to travel back from Swindon

It was a Pad-Swa, and the driver still gets the odd comment from his TM when checking stops before the journey
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This has just reminded me of something last week that made me chuckle. Platform 2 at Didcot Parkway, waiting for the 1753 (exp. 1801). There had been significant disruption at some point, but trains seemed to be running normally from Didcot at least.

At 1755, suddenly the CIS changes to show the next train being 1757 (exp 1757) – which is odd, since there’s no such train scheduled.

1757, sure enough – “The train now approaching platform 2 is the 1757 to London Paddington. This train is the service from Bristol Temple Meads”. Train appears, slowly trundling up to the platform… and along the platform… and past the platform towards London – whilst the announcement goes on “The train now standing at platform 2…”

Bemused looks all around! Case of the signaller deciding to add a stop but not telling the driver?

(Equally it's not that uncommon for trains to make unscheduled stops at Didcot without any notice - only a "Stand back" warning!)

It would be the FGW control, not the signaller who would decide, and the driver and guard would usually be given a written Stop Order at some point prior to this (Swindon, probably). The signal on the UP platform at Didcot can be Red of Green on approach, and if it was Red, the driver would probably approach it slowly so as not to come to a complete stop on the platform, if he was not expecting to call at that station.

 

[robertclark125]

A few years ago, a then GNER service from Newcastle to London failed to stop at Durham. It turned out the driver had been given the wrong data card for the journey, which details the stations the train stops at. Passengers got off at darlington, where taxis took them back to Durham.

The incident at the start of this thread could even have been caused by that.

 

[js47604]

Yes, it was the mid 1990's. But the principles were the same, if the driver admitted misjudgment or misreading the timetable then it was one thing, but, if he blamed the set, it would heve been sent for a brake and speedo test as soon as possible, just as if it was an SPD. Station over runs were actually quite rare.

The principles aren't the same at all,spads and station overuns have never been treated the same,Any driver with a brain would not blame the set if it could be proved otherwise,and tolink the two is ludicrous

 

[Ferret]

It was a Pad-Swa, and the driver still gets the odd comment from his TM when checking stops before the journey

Haha, I regularly do that to one of ours who managed to miss out Sesame St! Known in the trade as 'doing a Basil' now. I have to say these incidents seem quite funny when it doesn't affect you - not so funny when you're the one tamking the flak because 40000 queen heads weren't enough to make the driver remember to stop....!