Driver Manager role, whats involved?

[JB25]

Note that whilst it says Non-Driver, it is also first line Ops On-Call.
This is why when one of them is on-call, they cannot relieve a driver, or move a train in an emergency, such as the middle of the night.......

That's what the CDM does. CDM takes the train, DLM deals with the driver, and chain of care etc in cases of fatalities.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Seems a bit convoluted to me. Why not have just one who does it all? Like a DM?

 

[A-driver]

Seems a bit convoluted to me. Why not have just one who does it all? Like a DM?

Simple...money.

A DM has driver competency so is paid about 49-50k for the role and you need one DM for every so many drivers (I believe it's around 25drivers to 1 DM). A LM dosnt have competency so you can pay them peanuts and the CDMs get more money but there are far fewer of them-Like DMs you can only have so many drivers to a LM but you don't need that ratio for CDMs as they roam about so it works out cheaper.

 

[ComUtoR]

With respect, there is a big difference between being rules qualified and being a competent driver. It is depressing how someone who cannot do the job and has the benefit of a warm comfy armchair and the comforting blanket of hindsight can pass judgement on those who actually have to do the damn job day in day out.

"I have no idea how to do your job, but my book says you're doing it wrong."

I would have to disagree; a little...

Being qualified allows them to apply the rules. You don't need to be a driver to see where a rule has been broken.

I know it seems a touch cold but sometimes you need a more sanitary view of an incident. Its also why incidents are investigated fully. They will have resources they can all upon and are able to pool those resources to gain a clearer picture. Also with experience they will gain understanding and certainly an understanding far beyond the standard driver has.

There is also a big difference between someone who cannot do a job and one who does not.

The role is obviously well qualified. I'm sure the last place anyone wants to be after an incident is to be sitting in the hot seat. If you got someone to take you off and someone to take the train then I'm all for it.

That's what the CDM does. CDM takes the train, DLM deals with the driver, and chain of care etc in cases of fatalities.

Sorry, I may have posted the wrong Job Description ! yikes !

Are there different CDM's for Drivers and Guards ? Someone posted a CDM doesn't drive a Train but you're posting they do ?

Regardless; I don't mind that there are more specific people in a role. It shows me that traditional railway roles are moving on and its trying to become a more modern workplace.

 

[A-driver]

A CDM does drive a train to the same extent that a DM does. A LM does not drive a train (well some can as they are ex-drivers bit that is extra-curricular and not part of the job).

 

[LBSCR Times]

No, there are a few CDM on Southern that have not passed out yet to drive trains!

 

[ComUtoR]

Simple...money.

A DM has driver competency so is paid about 49-50k for the role and you need one DM for every so many drivers (I believe it's around 25drivers to 1 DM). A LM dosnt have competency so you can pay them peanuts and the CDMs get more money but there are far fewer of them-Like DMs you can only have so many drivers to a LM but you don't need that ratio for CDMs as they roam about so it works out cheaper.

I would debate the money issue. (but not in this thread)

A Driver manager with full competence and with a driving background who deals specifically with Drivers and Operations complimented with an administrator who deals with sickness etc. and back of house grunt work seems better to me. A DM who does everything can be overstretched which is why they get the limit on drivers.

Providing more targeted roles should give greater flexibility and often a higher skill set. That is advantageous to everyone.

Its clear that various TOCs do things differently. Without debating what's the best the roles do have similar responsibilities and similar levels of qualifications.

Rules, Traction, Operations as well as good communication skills and knowledge of all relative departments. I have no idea what a Signaller does all day or what a Fitter does and I'm sure they aren't sure what Drivers do all day. Having your DM's with a broad understanding of all depts is very very important.

 

[JB25]

I would have to disagree; a little...

Being qualified allows them to apply the rules. You don't need to be a driver to see where a rule has been broken.

I know it seems a touch cold but sometimes you need a more sanitary view of an incident. Its also why incidents are investigated fully. They will have resources they can all upon and are able to pool those resources to gain a clearer picture. Also with experience they will gain understanding and certainly an understanding far beyond the standard driver has.

There is also a big difference between someone who cannot do a job and one who does not.

The role is obviously well qualified. I'm sure the last place anyone wants to be after an incident is to be sitting in the hot seat. If you got someone to take you off and someone to take the train then I'm all for it.



Sorry, I may have posted the wrong Job Description ! yikes !

Are there different CDM's for Drivers and Guards ? Someone posted a CDM doesn't drive a Train but you're posting they do ?

Regardless; I don't mind that there are more specific people in a role. It shows me that traditional railway roles are moving on and its trying to become a more modern workplace.

Our CDMs cover Drivers and Conductors.

 

[ComUtoR]

Our CDMs cover Drivers and Conductors.

Cheers

 

[BravoGolfMike]

So a Line Manager will get paid significantly less than the drivers they manage, discipline and hire?

 

[ComUtoR]

So a Line Manager will get paid significantly less than the drivers they manage, discipline and hire?

Wages reflect the role in which you work.

As has already been said. A DM who has Driver competency and come from the Driving Grade will get a higher base salary as its line of promotion.

Drivers are subject to union agreed wage rises and managers are subject to performance related pay (using KPI's) They may also have different benefit packages, leave arrangements, pension benefits, working hours and no doubt other difference too. That should reflect differences in salary too. Chuck in overtime payments and its not always financially beneficial to be a manager.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Yes, Im aware of driver manager wages being higher but that's because, in my TOC, they retain competency. They also deal with disciplinary matters and other managerial things. What I am trying to ask is whether the LMs, who do not retain competency, get paid less than the drivers they manage.

Incedentally, drivers tend to earn more as they can work overtime, DMs usually do not. People who want to earn more go to freight, not the office!

 

[A-driver]

I would debate the money issue. (but not in this thread)



A Driver manager with full competence and with a driving background who deals specifically with Drivers and Operations complimented with an administrator who deals with sickness etc. and back of house grunt work seems better to me. A DM who does everything can be overstretched which is why they get the limit on drivers.



Providing more targeted roles should give greater flexibility and often a higher skill set. That is advantageous to everyone.



Its clear that various TOCs do things differently. Without debating what's the best the roles do have similar responsibilities and similar levels of qualifications.



Rules, Traction, Operations as well as good communication skills and knowledge of all relative departments. I have no idea what a Signaller does all day or what a Fitter does and I'm sure they aren't sure what Drivers do all day. Having your DM's with a broad understanding of all depts is very very important.

Currently it may work out more expensive (if nothing else because those DMs who became LMs get more money than those hired in) but I believe the aim is that ultimately you can have LMs on about 30k a year with a handful of CDMs on 45k so rather than let's say 10(for arguments sake) DMs all on 45k you can have 7 LMs on 30k and 3 CDMs on 45k.

I doubt many would dispute that the system isn't as good as having DMs but it all comes down to money-the accountants have done the figures and as the savings seem significant enough it's worth the change in managements eyes.

So a Line Manager will get paid significantly less than the drivers they manage, discipline and hire?

Yes. They are basically office staff. They are not safety critical and have minimal training on rules. Their job is designed to allow then to tick boxes on checklists rather than use railway knowledge.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

Yes. They are basically office staff. They are not safety critical and have minimal training on rules. Their job is designed to allow then to tick boxes on checklists rather than use railway knowledge.

Thanks for that. I can imagine it's pretty awkward being disciplined or investigated by one of these LMs.

 

[BestWestern]

Just to add to the mix, FGW has two strands of management for traincrew; the competence management team deal with the technical side of actually doing the job, while the line managers are essentially glorified admin. Comp side obviously need to be fully signed up on rules, routes and traction, while the line managers require no train working experience whatsoever, whether they're looking after Drivers or Guards (though thankfully most of them are from the coalface).

Clearly this stuff varies enormously with each TOC! :-/