Driver Guard hierarchy.

[bb21]

1,2 & 4 aren't excusable. 4 may well lead to having to find a new job if given when asked to 'please explain'! 3 is just about excusable. 5 isn't really about running early.

I think tongue, cheek, and more is what he is up to.

The main bus operator in my area was, a few years ago, heavily fined by the Traffic Commissioner for numerous incidences of running early. Some drivers were dismissed as well. In fact they have been fined in 2011, 2007 and 2005 for poor timekeeping, including early running. Probably due for another fine soon on that record!

If you are talking about Wessex Connect, I think that is about par for the whole Rotala group, not just in Bristol.

 

[bnm]

If you are talking about Wessex Connect, I think that is about par for the whole Rotala group, not just in Bristol.

Right city. Wrong operator.

It's First who have paid nearly £200,000 in fines for punctuality (both for early and late running) levied by the Traffic Commissioner in the past 10 years.

 

[muz379]

I recall a bus driver saying "There are a thousand excuses for being late, but none at all for being early!".

If I missed my train because it ran early I'd be somewhat miffed, and would hope that the TOC would honour a refund if the journey was therefore delayed significantly. Fine as a one off - if it regularly happens then obviously something isn't right.

Everybody makes mistakes and it would be unfair to seriously reprimand a member of staff for slipping up and reading the wrong schedule, or having his watch set wrong, or perhaps just cocking up for reasons unknown - a quiet chat and a "don't do it again" would suffice. Of course, if this member of staff has a record as long as your right arm...

Sometimes it is not even the member of staffs fault it might be the companies fault. There have been times traincrew have been given out of date schedule cards because they have been mixed up with the in date ones or just not simply replaced when they run out of date and the timetables change .

And I recall a time when I arrived at a station and the departure time on the CIS said I had to wait there for 6 minutes till xx:28 but my schedule card said I was set to depart at xx:22 . If there was no CIS at that station then I might be departing earlier than the time published in the public timetable , through no fault of my own .

 

[dk1]

It's the guards job to bring me a coffee.

 

[TDK]

And the potential passenger in these situations?

What time should they turn up for their train as advertised in timetables?

Is 3 minutes too late? 5? 7?

The scenario I referred to in the OP actually happened. Passenger was walking toward the platform, at an unstaffed station with a less than hourly service, 3 minutes before the advertised departure time, only to see the train depart. There were independent witnesses to the early departure as well. Unfortunately this station doesn't have a timing point so there's no way to retrospectively check the departure time.
I appreciate this isn't a safety issue, in this case the station is mid block and has no starting signal, but shouldn't the guard and driver work together to ensure an on-time departure?

What's the response internally when a complaint comes in from a passenger that you departed early. I don't mean the response to the passenger, they'll get their platitudes and maybe some RTVs. Is their any comeback for the staff involved?
Just to make it clear, I'm not having a dig at rail staff, and I'm not trying to dress this up as a safety issue, I know it isn't. Just asking in the spirit of curiosity. I know if I arrive at the station with 3 minutes to go before departure I'm cutting it fine. But I'd still be p***** off if after arriving with that little time to spare I see my train pulling out.

There is a way, if a complaint is lodged the unit can be downloaded and then the manager can see if the train did leave 3 minutes early. The response will be an investigation. In that investigation there are a few things that need to be done. Firstly the clocks on the platforms and also the watches of the train staff need to be checked. The clock in the unit if it has one needs to be checked. If all these are working correctly then and only then will staff be asked for a report into the incident. However a report can be requested but if this could lead to a disciplinary the unions would ask for all evidence to be produced. There are many occasions where the WTT is different from the passenger times and this could be the case on when a train leaves earlier than the advertised time. It does happen.
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There's no real benefit to trying to rush or departing early. You end up sat at a red signal further on because you're out of course - especially at busy junctions.
If I get 2 on the buzzer up to a minute early I just go. If it's any more I will just wait and if someone can't get on then that's down to the guard. Unfortunately there's no buzzer code for "Check your watch pal and release the doors again".

Yes but you do have cab to cab communication, as previously said the driver is in control of the movement of the train and the guard is in control of everything else. Communication and working as a team is paramount.
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Sometimes it is not even the member of staffs fault it might be the companies fault. There have been times traincrew have been given out of date schedule cards because they have been mixed up with the in date ones or just not simply replaced when they run out of date and the timetables change .

To be fair it is the train crews responsibility to check the dockets and the date is a part of that, the main problem is getting a standard docket when there is an STP. I do remember once the driver dropping the brake on me and I overshot a platform by only half a coach length to discover the guard had the wrong docket and we were not due to stop anyway however I did thank him and said do the same again if in doubt.

 

[PermitToTravel]

To be fair it is the train crews responsibility to check the dockets and the date is a part of that, the main problem is getting a standard docket when there is an STP. I do remember once the driver dropping the brake on me and I overshot a platform by only half a coach length to discover the guard had the wrong docket and we were not due to stop anyway however I did thank him and said do the same again if in doubt.

Do you mean the guard?

 

[muz379]

To be fair it is the train crews responsibility to check the dockets and the date is a part of that, the main problem is getting a standard docket when there is an STP. I do remember once the driver dropping the brake on me and I overshot a platform by only half a coach length to discover the guard had the wrong docket and we were not due to stop anyway however I did thank him and said do the same again if in doubt.

True It is but I bet it wouldn't result in any further action , it would be an easy one to miss .

 

[trentside]

It's the guards job to bring me a coffee.

Nah, typical tight driver

You get paid more, you get the coffee in

 

[ANorthernGuard]

The trouble a lot of the time is the dubious working time table and the Passenger Time Table. there can be a couple of minutes difference at some stops, also with TOC's wanting doors to be closed at least 30 seconds before departure that can also cause problems.

 

[Tomnick]

The WTT departure time should never be earlier than the advertised departure time though.

 

[455driver]

Nah, typical tight driver

You get paid more, you get the coffee in

I always do, except for when the guard buys them after an oops moment.

 

[dk1]

Nah, typical tight driver

You get paid more, you get the coffee in

I was thinking more of a freebie from the buffet car. I hide when in AMT & see other staff passing. You can burn a tenner in seconds.

 

[thelongestroad]

There is a way, if a complaint is lodged the unit can be downloaded

Never trust the time on the OTDR! It's regularly a few minutes out.

 

[TheEdge]

It's the guards job to bring me a coffee.

Ahem...

I've just been issued a challenge!

 

[TDK]

Do you mean the guard?

Sorry, yes the guard
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Never trust the time on the OTDR! It's regularly a few minutes out.

When you download a train you check the time with the correct time and then add the difference to the data so OTDR downloads are 100% accurate on time, they have to be as they are evidence that can be used in a court of law..

 

[thelongestroad]

Sorry, yes the guard
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


When you download a train you check the time with the correct time and then add the difference to the data so OTDR downloads are 100% accurate on time, they have to be as they are evidence that can be used in a court of law..

Of course! I hadn't thought of that. Well explained.

 

[notadriver]

Do you mean the guard?

There was a certain guard who used the emergency brake plunger on several occasions because he thought that the driver had forgotten to slow down or was going too fast for the turnout. That PROVES the guard is in charge.

 

[rebmcr]

When you download a train you check the time with the correct time and then add the difference to the data so OTDR downloads are 100% accurate on time, they have to be as they are evidence that can be used in a court of law..

It can even be compared with known timing points on the day of the incident, in case a few weeks have passed.

 

[ExRes]

There was a certain guard who used the emergency brake plunger on several occasions because he thought that the driver had forgotten to slow down or was going too fast for the turnout. That PROVES the guard is in charge.

I remember hearing about a Guard like that, he was offered, formally, a change in career progression and, informally, a good duffing

 

[dk1]

Ahem...

I've just been issued a challenge!

The best ones always do after Mng on the down

 

[notadriver]

What about on Javelin trains where doors are fully controlled by the driver or services which retain a guard within a DOO area ?

 

[muz379]

What about on Javelin trains where doors are fully controlled by the driver or services which retain a guard within a DOO area ?

If the guard doesnt dispatch the train then surely they wont be responsible for timekeeping .
If the train is DOO then the driver who controls the doors decides when to shut them and go - notwithstanding the signal being clear and it being safe to leave ofc

 

[TDK]

It can even be compared with known timing points on the day of the incident, in case a few weeks have passed.

Depending on traction OTDR downloads last a bit longer than a couple of weeks and also downloads are uploaded to a server for viewing if needed.