Driver > guard communication

[DarloRich]

Yesterday (23rd July) I travelled on a very busy 1D20 being the 1510 LNER service from kings cross to Leeds.

The train was very busy due to other cancellations but was doing well until we reached Grantham where there was an elongated stop.

The cause? The brake controller handle came off in the driver's hand.

How did I know this? For some reason the Driver > Guard communication was played over the tannoy!

That was a slightly strange situation! I didn't even know that was possible!

 

[Retorus]

Poor 91s, they're ready for a long sleep.

 

[DarloRich]

Poor 91s, they're ready for a long sleep.

No idea show they fixed it. Maybe they just jammed a screwdriver in there

(Joke!)

 

[Kentish RYS]

I've heard of this happening and also signaller to driver radio coming over the PA. A guess is it might be as it is I think often a shared handset a wrong button press at the exact wrong moment?

 

[dk1]

Done that many times before and thankfully our expletives weren’t too bad

 

[Kentish RYS]

Done that many times before and thankfully our expletives weren’t too bad

Do you know how, was it press PA button as you pick up GSMR as I guessed or was it an equipment issue?

 

[dk1]

Do you know how, was it press PA button as you pick up GSMR as I guessed or was it an equipment issue?

Can’t recall now how we did it.

 

[Kentish RYS]

Can’t recall now how we did it.

Fair enough, I definitely know the feeling though. I've had to urgently turn down my back to back radio/walkie-talkie/whatever you want to call it as I've been giving a PA where I volunteer as some message that is not necessarily appropriate for the public comes on the radio.

 

[dk1]

Fair enough, I definitely know the feelign though. I've had to urgently turn down my back to back radio/walkie-talkie/whatever you want to call it as I've been giving a PA where I volunteer as some message that is not necessarily appropriate for the public comes on the radio.

Could be so so embarrassing.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Done that many times before and thankfully our expletives weren’t too bad

In situations like this how do you/the guard not notice? Surely the announcements would be audible unless both were in a loco and DVT cab respectively?
Or is it a case of realising a sentence or so into the message?

 

[Krokodil]

In situations like this how do you/the guard not notice? Surely the announcements would be audible unless both were in a loco and DVT cab respectively?
Or is it a case of realising a sentence or so into the message?

On most units of a certain age, if the auto-announcer is running when you try the cab-to-cab phone the conversation gets broadcast over the PA. As it's a "cab-to-cab" phone, that means that you'll either be in a cab, a guard's van, or possibly a buffet. The era of PA handsets at all door panels is a recent one.

 

[michael74]

Easily done on the older FX units, if you hit PA by mistake then initiate a cab to cab (or other way round), I remember discussing with the driver about a sheep we rolled and I saw it in the 4 foot from the back cab, fortunately it was late and only a couple of people on the train

 

[ainsworth74]

I've heard it happen a couple of times. I think my favourite was years ago on the approach to Waterloo when the guard confidently announced that we'd be coupling to another train so the doors wouldn't open for a few moments to allow the coupling to take place.

A few moments later the driver comes over the PA: "Dave mate, we're not coupling at Waterloo yeah?".

 

[Segedunum]

No idea show they fixed it. Maybe they just jammed a screwdriver in there

(Joke!)

It was reattached with the help of another driver travelling pass in the end.

 

[speedy1]

I'd still prefer a 91 with a dodgy brake controller handle to an Azuma and its ironing boards.

 

[saismee]

I'd still prefer a 91 with a dodgy brake controller handle to an Azuma and its ironing boards.

So long as the red button doesn't come off I think we'll be alright.

 

[Mojo]

I had this on a Silverlink Class 321 about 20 years ago. All the customers on the train (at least in my carriage) could hear both ends of the conversation so it’s not like one of the staff members pressed the button to use the PA instead of the cab-to-cab.

 

[Towers]

Prior to the advent of the (awful) TrainFX kit, cab to cab conversations and public address announcements would be made via the same handset, the only difference being a ‘PA’ button would be pressed to energise the speakers if it was an announcement, and not pressed if it was intended to be a cab to cab discussion. You can see the obvious weak point in that setup!

 

[Krokodil]

I've heard it happen a couple of times. I think my favourite was years ago on the approach to Waterloo when the guard confidently announced that we'd be coupling to another train so the doors wouldn't open for a few moments to allow the coupling to take place.

A few moments later the driver comes over the PA: "Dave mate, we're not coupling at Waterloo yeah?".

Did the train end up coupling?

I had this on a Silverlink Class 321 about 20 years ago. All the customers on the train (at least in my carriage) could hear both ends of the conversation so it’s not like one of the staff members pressed the button to use the PA instead of the cab-to-cab.

If one presses the PA button on units of that vintage while making a cab-to-cab call, the passengers would indeed hear both ends of the conversation.

 

[cool110]

I've heard it happen a couple of times. I think my favourite was years ago on the approach to Waterloo when the guard confidently announced that we'd be coupling to another train so the doors wouldn't open for a few moments to allow the coupling to take place.

A few moments later the driver comes over the PA: "Dave mate, we're not coupling at Waterloo yeah?".

I heard one like that at Salford Crescent, train not booked to stopped but the guard announced it when the driver was braking for a signal. In that case the driver patched the buzzer to the PA to give 2-2 as we entered the platform

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

The cause? The brake controller handle came off in the driver's hand.

That happened to a driver mate of mine down here. The brake handle flew off in running on a Comeng train. It put a hole in the roof apprantly!

 

[172007]

Happens from time to time on Class 172's where the Cab to Cab is broadcast in the saloon. It'a not too bad if its proffessional but even so many of us use expletives as verbal punctuation inclusing the C bomb.

 

[ainsworth74]

Did the train end up coupling?

Nope came straight into an empty platform!

 

[Krokodil]

Nope came straight into an empty platform!

I suppose by that point the driver would have seen that he had main aspect signals all the way into the platform.

 

[Ecmlleeds]

This is a fear when working a 225. It's a switch from on or off and if you leave it on when contacting the driver the whole train will indeed hear the conversation!

 

[cf111]

The cause? The brake controller handle came off in the driver's hand.

At least it didn't come off at 125mph

 

[Efini92]

Yesterday (23rd July) I travelled on a very busy 1D20 being the 1510 LNER service from kings cross to Leeds.

The train was very busy due to other cancellations but was doing well until we reached Grantham where there was an elongated stop.

The cause? The brake controller handle came off in the driver's hand.

How did I know this? For some reason the Driver > Guard communication was played over the tannoy!

That was a slightly strange situation! I didn't even know that was possible!

Used to happen all the time, especially if the bulb in the pa button was very dim or the sun was shining on it:

The yellow button would be pressed and turn on the PA, you’d have to press it again to turn off the PA. The white button was just a beeper to contact the driver.

 

[PZ 08895]

Talking about handles coming off - many years ago I went to a lecture by then Fleet Engineer at Laira at the time who recited an incident on a HST where a power handle had come off in the driver's hand after they had selected full power a short distance after leaving Paddington. The situation is not unsafe as when the brakes are applied, the power is automatically cut off. However, fortunately it was a sharp driver who thought it would be much better for the passengers to terminate the train at Reading rather than stop somewhere in between. The issue was when an HST goes over 125mph the power is cut off automatically and cannot be reapplied until the speed drops and the power handle is moved to cut-off and then reapply power, which obviously was not possible. There was therefore the risk than when the train got over 125mph and power was cut off, it would not reach Reading. So, the driver contacted Route Control on the NRN radio, explained the situation and asked for a clear run into Reading Platform 4, which was granted. He then remembered that if the fire bell test button was pressed, the leading power car engine would revert to idle, but the rear power car would not, with only one power providing tractive effort, the train would not reach 125mph, so he rung the fire bell. It worked, and the train came to a controlled stop at Reading.

 

[Kentish RYS]

Talking about handles coming off - many years ago I went to a lecture by then Fleet Engineer at Laira at the time who recited an incident on a HST where a power handle had come off in the driver's hand after they had selected full power a short distance after leaving Paddington. The situation is not unsafe as when the brakes are applied, the power is automatically cut off. However, fortunately it was a sharp driver who thought it would be much better for the passengers to terminate the train at Reading rather than stop somewhere in between. The issue was when an HST goes over 125mph the power is cut off automatically and cannot be reapplied until the speed drops and the power handle is moved to cut-off and then reapply power, which obviously was not possible. There was therefore the risk than when the train got over 125mph and power was cut off, it would not reach Reading. So, the driver contacted Route Control on the NRN radio, explained the situation and asked for a clear run into Reading Platform 4, which was granted. He then remembered that if the fire bell test button was pressed, the leading power car engine would revert to idle, but the rear power car would not, with only one power providing tractive effort, the train would not reach 125mph, so he rung the fire bell. It worked, and the train came to a controlled stop at Reading.

That's some impressive thinking under pressure combined with traction knowledge to keep the job going as much as possible!

 

[43096]

He then remembered that if the fire bell test button was pressed, the leading power car engine would revert to idle, but the rear power car would not, with only one power providing tractive effort, the train would not reach 125mph, so he rung the fire bell. It worked, and the train came to a controlled stop at Reading.

The fire alarm test button didn't revert the power car to idle, it shuts the engine down.

It was used for many years as a "local engine stop" button (pressing "Engines Stop" on the desk shuts down both power cars) - you'd hear the fire alarm sound briefly when a train terminated at Paddington or King's Cross as the driver used it to shut the leading power car down (and leave the back one running for ETS).

Most power cars have since been modified so the "Fire Alarm Test" test button on the desk is now "Local Engine Stop", and a new "Fire Alarm Test" button provided on the control cubicle.