Drinking water at stations

[johnesutton]

I have become a frequent rail user over the past year and am dismayed to find that in most stations there is no drinking water available. To add insult to injury, in the London mainline stations that I use (Paddington and Kings Cross) not only do you have to pay 30p to use the toilet but they have assiduously removed all cold water supplies from the toilets!

I prefer to refill a plastic bottle with tap water rather than purchasing endless new ones because it is cheaper and better for the environment. I have on occasions approached the staff in the retail outlets on the stations and asked them to refill my bottle but they state that they are not allowed to do it! Should I assume then that the water bottling companies have paid the rail authorities to remove all publicly accessible drinking water supplies?

I expect we'll be buying fresh air in bottles soon when somebody can work out the right marketing strategy.

On health, environmental and public utility grounds, surely ALL STATIONS SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE DRINKING WATER? It's a no brainer.

The one exception I have found is Cambridge where there is still a cold water tap in the men's toilets.

I heard recently that Lord Adonis (hopefully a frequent rail user?) is conducting some kind of rail related inquiry? Would this issue be covered by this inquiry?

 

[moonrakerz]

Should I assume then that the water bottling companies have paid the rail authorities to remove all publicly accessible drinking water supplies?

No, it's a little more subtle than that.

The station owners don't want the expense of providing this "service", so they don't. If anyone queries it, it's for "elf & safety" reasons.
The beverage outlets on the stations sell bottled water, and the non-availability of free water will force passengers to buy this stuff. The outlet's profits rise which enables the station owner to charge an even more extortionate rent - which then causes the outlet to increase its prices even more - and best of all, the shop gets the blame for the high prices ! Brilliant !

It's all in here:-
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0349119856/?tag=googhydr-21&hvadid=5115345995&ref=pd_sl_9m6k2o4gmy_e

A quote to start you off:-
"Who makes most money from the demand for cappuccinos early in the morning at Waterloo Station"
Clue: it's not Starbucks, Costa, Cafe Nero, Upper Crust, etc, etc................

 

[Drsatan]

Although this is a bit off-topic, this reminds me:

A man went into a branch of KFC and ordered something to eat. Since he didn't like fizzy drinks he ordered a glass of tap water, only to be told that he couldn't have one because of "health and safety"

That excuse is of course complete bull****. Pubs and restaurants were once required by law to provide free tap water on request; that requirement has since been removed. On a pub crawl last Friday I tried ordering tap water from two pubs in Exeter, and was refused (I wanted to save money & it's one of the few drinks I can down. Apple sours were £2 each at this place which is a right rip-off. I did drink alcohol at the other pubs on our itinerary though), presumably so they can charge you 75p or so for a bottle of water

 

[Justin Smith]

I have become a frequent rail user over the past year and am dismayed to find that in most stations there is no drinking water available. To add insult to injury, in the London mainline stations that I use (Paddington and Kings Cross) not only do you have to pay 30p to use the toilet but they have assiduously removed all cold water supplies from the toilets!

I prefer to refill a plastic bottle with tap water rather than purchasing endless new ones because it is cheaper and better for the environment. I have on occasions approached the staff in the retail outlets on the stations and asked them to refill my bottle but they state that they are not allowed to do it! Should I assume then that the water bottling companies have paid the rail authorities to remove all publicly accessible drinking water supplies?

I expect we'll be buying fresh air in bottles soon when somebody can work out the right marketing strategy.

On health, environmental and public utility grounds, surely ALL STATIONS SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE DRINKING WATER? It's a no brainer.

The one exception I have found is Cambridge where there is still a cold water tap in the men's toilets.

I heard recently that Lord Adonis (hopefully a frequent rail user?) is conducting some kind of rail related inquiry? Would this issue be covered by this inquiry?

I agree.
In fact airports are as bad. My wife likes to have bottled water to drink, and as you know they take it off you each time you go through security.
Nearly every foreign airport has freely available drinking water.
Nearly every British airport doesn`t.
It`s a disgrace.

 

[route:oxford]

That excuse is of course complete bull****. Pubs and restaurants were once required by law to provide free tap water on request.

Many still are, more often than not it's a condition of the local licensing board. Should call their bluff and ask the barman/restauranteur to show you a copy of their licence as you believe they are in breach of the licence. They'll probably look at you with far less confidence and say "ice and lemon?"*

*Rules are, of course, different in Scotland, where I believe there is still a requirement to give drinking water on demand.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Many still are, more often than not it's a condition of the local licensing board. Should call their bluff and ask the barman/restauranteur to show you a copy of their licence as you believe they are in breach of the licence. They'll probably look at you with far less confidence and say "ice and lemon?"*

*Rules are, of course, different in Scotland, where I believe there is still a requirement to give drinking water on demand.

Quite correct, tho' it is one of a "pool" of conditions which the Licensing Authority might, and might not, have applied.

If you think this issue is worth pursuing then there's several things you could do - but I wouldn't want to encourage anyone here to give front line catering staff a hard time, its not their decision after all!
But if you can be bothered, it IS worth asking for an explanation, and then ask for more evidence to substantiate it. If anyone gives a H&S reason then ask to read the risk assessment that shows what the risks of drinking their water are!!
If its "company policy" then ask to read it and ask to get a Director to contact you to explain where water appears in their customer relations.
Remember, if you clearly order water AS AN ELEMENT of a whole, bigger order and you don't receive it, then you can refuse to eat any of it and not pay.

 

[djw1981]

The H&S reason is that often these places end up using water tanks of some description. This is a health risk unless the water is subsequently heated prior to use (e.g. coffee machine etc). The premix drink machines are normally direct plumbed into the mains and could only offer you carbonated water by removing the concentrate syrup canister.

In toilets, mixer taps are used because they can regulate the temperature better (this will also soon be mandatory in all houses with a maximum permitted temperature at the tap) to avoid scalding incidents.

 

[mallard]

Surely businesses are still required to provide free water to their employees?

Thus there must be a "safe" supply of drinking water around somewhere...

 

[johnesutton]

In toilets, mixer taps are used because they can regulate the temperature better (this will also soon be mandatory in all houses with a maximum permitted temperature at the tap) to avoid scalding incidents.

If there is a mixer then there is a cold supply, which is more often than not a direct feed from the mains and hence of drinking quality. In a public place such as a toilet where there is a lot of plumbing (multiple sinks, flush cisterns, etc) then the additional cost of running the cold supply to a tap or drinking fountain is very small. I can think of no reason that this is not done routinely other than that it is no longer considered necessary because of the "cheap" availability of plastic bottled water.

In a hundred years when hydrocarbons are scarce and the oceans are teeming with plastic rather than life, I have no doubt what our grandchildren will think about our actions: grotesque stupidity

 

[mumrar]

If have to say I fully agree with what you've said. This consumer obsession with water that has run through a far away mountain and coffee that we actually don't call coffee is totally out of hand. I would certainly support a government petition online if one was set up. Honestly, we hear so much about the human rights legislation being used for all sorts of reasons, surely besides air, clean water is our most basic human requirement and therefore must be a human right. Whilst Network Rail are a business and will clearly let space to almost anyone who foots the bill, surely some sort of common sense should prevail over the poison peddlers of Costa, AMT and the like?

 

[adambro]

We must have free water due to human rights! Hmm... Good luck with that.

You pay for the stuff at home, why do people expect to get it free?

 

[johnesutton]

We must have free water due to human rights! Hmm... Good luck with that.

You pay for the stuff at home, why do people expect to get it free?

Free or not free is NOT the question! Availability is. But since you raised it...

I am not proposing to get bathed, or wash the car, or water the garden, in the station! So the cost of the amount of water concerned is COMPLETELY trifling. Which is why it is all the more annoying that the supply is not there. Indeed, worse than not there, IT HAS BEEN REMOVED!

Put bluntly, the availability of drinking water (and toilets) in public places is the mark of a civilised society. Meeting this need by requiring people to purchase bottled water rather than making available mains water is a step backwards in every respect that I can imagine... save for some narrow commercial interests. It is pathetic.

 

[Greenback]

Free or not free is NOT the question! Availability is. But since you raised it...

I am not proposing to get bathed, or wash the car, or water the garden, in the station! So the cost of the amount of water concerned is COMPLETELY trifling. Which is why it is all the more annoying that the supply is not there. Indeed, worse than not there, IT HAS BEEN REMOVED!

Put bluntly, the availability of drinking water (and toilets) in public places is the mark of a civilised society. Meeting this need by requiring people to purchase bottled water rather than making available mains water is a step backwards in every respect that I can imagine... save for some narrow commercial interests. It is pathetic.

I completely agree. Another symptom of the UK's seemingly inexorable decline!

 

[adambro]

Don't get me wrong, it isn't that I don't think it would be nice to have drinking water available at stations as you describe, rather I think that suggestions that we have some right to demand it and should start a petition about it is somewhat extreme.

In this age of environmental and health concerns, I can see there could be a good argument to provide drinking fountains in station, I just think you'd get laughed at if you were to demand it on the basis of an apparent violation of your human rights as some have suggested.

Big railway stations like Kings Cross are likely to have a suggestions box hiding away. Have any of those so outraged by the unavailability of water asked Network Rail to consider providing it or are we just going to start some daft petition about it? I would have thought contacting Network Rail would have been the easiest first step.

 

[driver9000]

You pay for the stuff at home, why do people expect to get it free?

Its not the water your paying for its the infrastructure to supply it that is where your money goes.


I fully agree that tap water should be available on request for no charge - I thought it was still law that water requests couldnt be refused.

 

[poshbakerloo]

Drinking water at station would be real good! But I'm sure it will just get vandalised or summit

 

[djw1981]

I do get my water free as I am a student

I agree with the idea of this petition.

 

[royaloak]

So you wouldn't have a problem putting your mouth to a water fountain that has been used by god knows who before you? Or would there would be free bottles/ cups to fill.
When you are in hospital with some rotten disease caught from the fountain you can get another petition going to have these health risks removed, just think of the court cases!

 

[asylumxl]

I know this isn't the same tangent as everyone else took on this subject, but I thought you'd like to know "Chop'd" in St Pancras has a cold water supply which they'll hapilly let you use to refill your bottle as many times as you like. Worth a pop over from Kings Cross if you have time.

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit, I certainly don't see why staffed stations shouldn't have a cold water tap where people could fill up their own bottle. True, there's a risk of vandalism - but unfortunately there is with everything else in this day and age !

 

[thefab444]

But I'm sure it will just get vandalised or summit

Indeed, it's worth paying the 50p for a bottle of water just to know it's "safe"!

 

[Justin Smith]

Indeed, it's worth paying the 50p for a bottle of water just to know it's "safe"!

None of the drinking water fountains I`ve ever used require you to actually touch anything, other than the tap or push button to operate them.

 

[350401]

As far as I'm aware, most licensing boards require licensees to provide tap water free of charge as a condition of their licence. The licence at the pub where I have a part-time job at certainly does and I know its the case at a fair few pubs where my mates work. However, its *not* a legal requirement under statute law, and never has been. That is why most licensing boards have free drinking water as a condition of the licence. IMHO if refused free water, its best to kick up a fuss and rely on the element of embarrassment to the management - in today's climate of consumer rights and focus on PR, it'll probably work. Incidentally, I know that the Balcony Bar at Manchester Piccadilly serves free tap water on request. The staff do tend to scowl though! :roll:

 

[Domeyhead]

When I was a lad back in the sixties and used to go train spotting, I noticed that in all the station toilets round our way there was always a tap (for filling buckets etc) but it was always accompanied by a Southern Railway sign clearly marked "Not Drinking Water" which surprises me now because back then there was no Elf n Safety to worry about uncovered cisterns or lead pipes. What on earth was in that water - plutonium?

 

[ukrob]

None of the drinking water fountains I`ve ever used require you to actually touch anything, other than the tap or push button to operate them.

That doesn't mean people don't.

 

[mathmo]

I was at Oxenholme station a few years back and unexpectedly had to wait several hours for a lift. There was nowhere open to buy any water (or, better, get some tap water for free) so I had to resort to drinking some from the toilets, which was marked Not Drinking Water as it often is. I must say it was some of the most unpleasant water I've ever drunk, even though I was desperately thirsty!

 

[royaloak]

I was at Oxenholme station a few years back and unexpectedly had to wait several hours for a lift. There was nowhere open to buy any water (or, better, get some tap water for free) so I had to resort to drinking some from the toilets, which was marked Not Drinking Water as it often is. I must say it was some of the most unpleasant water I've ever drunk, even though I was desperately thirsty!

Do they not have shops outside of the station, if you were stuck there for a few hours why not take a walk around.

 

[Justin Smith]

That doesn't mean people don't.

What I mean by that is the water usually comes up as fountain, there literally is nowhere for anyone to touch anything that the water (esp the same water you would drink) would also touch.

Any company giving Health and Safety as an excuse for no drinking water is lying. It`s to save money and/or force you to buy some.....

 

[thefab444]

People could still put chewing gum/god knows what over the tap etc.

 

[dave12435]

Of course bak in the good ole days most large stations used to have drinking fountains
i mean if my college can have drinking fountains with 10 thousnad students