Drink Driving

[nuts & bolts]

A drink drive conviction doesn’t show up on a basic CRB (DBS) check which is asked for once succesful and contract signed, so one could argue that potentially the applicant could still be waiting over a year before starting, thus able to drive and wouldn’t have to disclose.......

I’m not here to judge, he was a **** but I’m sure a lesson learnt....

Even spent criminal offences have to be declared in roles such as train crew! Security is paramount due to holding passes for secure areas at major terminals. The TOC will check all submitted references.

 

[dctraindriver]

Even spent criminal offences have to be declared in roles such as train crew! Security is paramount due to holding passes for secure areas at major terminals. The TOC will check all submitted references.

Since when? Spent do not have to be declared. If I’m wrong I’d appreciate your evidence for this.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Even spent criminal offences have to be declared in roles such as train crew! Security is paramount due to holding passes for secure areas at major terminals. The TOC will check all submitted references.

Nope not true. These are the only exceptions

The following sentences are exempt from the 1974 Act and can never become spent:
a. Sentence of imprisonment for life;
b. Sentence of imprisonment, youth custody, detention in a young offender institution or
corrective training of over 4 years;
c. Sentence of preventive detention;
d. Sentence of detention during Her Majesty’s pleasure or for life;
e. Sentence of custody for life;
f. Public protection sentences (imprisonment for public protection, detention for public
protection, extended sentences of imprisonment or detention for public protection and
extended determinate sentences for dangerous offenders).

 

[dctraindriver]

Nope not true. These are the only exceptions

The following sentences are exempt from the 1974 Act and can never become spent:
a. Sentence of imprisonment for life;
b. Sentence of imprisonment, youth custody, detention in a young offender institution or
corrective training of over 4 years;
c. Sentence of preventive detention;
d. Sentence of detention during Her Majesty’s pleasure or for life;
e. Sentence of custody for life;
f. Public protection sentences (imprisonment for public protection, detention for public
protection, extended sentences of imprisonment or detention for public protection and
extended determinate sentences for dangerous offenders).

Precisely what I thought.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It may be illegal to discriminate but there are ways around informing people they weren't successful without direct discrimination and just say "I'm sorry you were not successful because of XYZ"

Not declaring is a blemish on one's integrity and whether or not this person is remorseful and has reflected on his misdemeanour, how can he convince the interview panel that he won't do it again?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Nope not true. These are the only exceptions

The following sentences are exempt from the 1974 Act and can never become spent:
a. Sentence of imprisonment for life;
b. Sentence of imprisonment, youth custody, detention in a young offender institution or
corrective training of over 4 years;
c. Sentence of preventive detention;
d. Sentence of detention during Her Majesty’s pleasure or for life;
e. Sentence of custody for life;
f. Public protection sentences (imprisonment for public protection, detention for public
protection, extended sentences of imprisonment or detention for public protection and
extended determinate sentences for dangerous offenders).

I thought more than one convinction (i.e. 2 or more) also meant each one wasn't spent and would have to be declared for life - have I got this wrong?

Also, is the criteria not different if you were a juvenile and convicted in a youth court? Obviously doesn't apply to this case though

 

[Niek88]

This is indeed true.

Nope not true. These are the only exceptions

The following sentences are exempt from the 1974 Act and can never become spent:
a. Sentence of imprisonment for life;
b. Sentence of imprisonment, youth custody, detention in a young offender institution or
corrective training of over 4 years;
c. Sentence of preventive detention;
d. Sentence of detention during Her Majesty’s pleasure or for life;
e. Sentence of custody for life;
f. Public protection sentences (imprisonment for public protection, detention for public
protection, extended sentences of imprisonment or detention for public protection and
extended determinate sentences for dangerous offenders).

 

[Dieseldriver]

Anyone in this thread who thinks there's no issue with driving excessively tired may want to type 'Great Heck' into Google.
Falling asleep at the wheel isn't something that happens to someone who had a rough night or a long night/day at work. It's something that happens to someone whose body has given them multiple warnings that they are excessively overtired and should pull over. Anyone that ignores those warning signs is just as arrogant, reckless and idiotic as someone who drives their car home from the pub after sinking 8 pints of lager.

 

[Stigy]

The disclosure time - i.e the period before the conviction is spent can vary quite a bit. The person I mentioned previously had his for 5 years.

Its a hard lesson to learn for sure

Drink driving isn’t classed as spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act until 10-years I believe.

 

[Niek88]

I thought more than one convinction (i.e. 2 or more) also meant each one wasn't spent and would have to be declared for life - have I got this wrong?

Also, is the criteria not different if you were a juvenile and convicted in a youth court? Obviously doesn't apply to this case though

Your offence is deemed 'spent' after you serve your initial sentence plus a buffer period. During the buffer period you have to stay trouble free.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Your offence is deemed 'spent' after you serve your initial sentence plus a buffer period. During the buffer period you have to stay trouble free.

If it's one conviction yes. Provided the OP's "friend" doesn't have any other conviction as my understanding is that more than one conviction exempt under the ROA 1974 is never spent. I'm curious now so will go and read up again in case things have changed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone in this thread who thinks there's no issue with driving excessively tired may want to type 'Great Heck' into Google.
Falling asleep at the wheel isn't something that happens to someone who had a rough night or a long night/day at work. It's something that happens to someone whose body has given them multiple warnings that they are excessively overtired and should pull over. Anyone that ignores those warning signs is just as arrogant, reckless and idiotic as someone who drives their car home from the pub after sinking 8 pints of lager.

Agreed.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Drink driving isn’t classed as spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act until 10-years I believe.

It's 5 years until it is spent. It stays on your license for 11 years from the date of conviction for drink driving

 

[NorvernRob]

Christ, he’s thinking about not declaring drink driving and I’ve just told the examiner during my medical that I had a lemsip last Friday

 

[MostlyHarmless]

I thought more than one convinction (i.e. 2 or more) also meant each one wasn't spent and would have to be declared for life - have I got this wrong?

Also, is the criteria not different if you were a juvenile and convicted in a youth court? Obviously doesn't apply to this case though

Motoring convictions are different to others when it becomes to rehabilitation and multiple offences. Generally it's a set time and the offence with the longest period is the one that is used when there are multiple motoring offences. I'm a bit vague after that!

 

[ST]

The difference in whether you need to declare or not is based on the question being asked by the prospective employer.

If you are asked whether you have any Convictions and are asked not to include Spent Convictions under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, then you do not need to disclose these (even if there has been more than one) as this is the wording used for a Basic Check, which is what I received for a trainee driver role, this check does not show any spent convictions, regardless of how many, it will only show those which will never be exempt as per post above.

If however the wording is along the lines of.....This role is Exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act etc..... the chances are this is a Standard or Enhanced check,(normally reserved for those working with kids) and will therefore will return a result.....so best be honest.

In terms of the OP, if he/she has just been convicted this will not be spent and should be declared as will come up in the Basic Check as per above.

 

[martin2345uk]

I don't think the OP will be back in this thread, the title seems to have been deleted...

 

[Dieseldriver]

Christ, he’s thinking about not declaring drink driving and I’ve just told the examiner during my medical that I had a lemsip last Friday

Haha! I feel that your career may go a little bit further than his...

 

[bnm]

It's worth noting that any motoring offence that attracts a licence endorsement (points) has to be declared to current or potential employers for five years under the Rehabilition of Offenders Act. That includes relatively minor endorsements such as speeding, defective lights, under/over inflated tyres.

That five year declaration period is longer than that imposed for some custodial sentences! You can blame the motor insurance industry for that. They've consistently lobbied government hard for the five year period.

I bet there are many folk out there who've got a few points on their driving licence and haven't told their employer. You could be dismissed if they find out.

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/motoring-convictions-and-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act/

 

[Stigy]

It's worth noting that any motoring offence that attracts a licence endorsement (points) has to be declared to current or potential employers for five years under the Rehabilition of Offenders Act. That includes relatively minor endorsements such as speeding, defective lights, under/over inflated tyres.

That five year declaration period is longer than that imposed for some custodial sentences! You can blame the motor insurance industry for that. They've consistently lobbied government hard for the five year period.

I bet there are many folk out there who've got a few points on their driving licence and haven't told their employer. You could be dismissed if they find out.

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/motoring-convictions-and-the-rehabilitation-of-offenders-act/

You’d only be dismissed if you know you should declare it and haven’t. I have to undergo yearly vetting so it’s a bit different for me, but once employed, Rail staff (or staff in most jobs to be honest) don’t have to have further DBS checks done. These certificates only last 1 to 3 years so should be renewed.

 

[nuts & bolts]

Since when? Spent do not have to be declared. If I’m wrong I’d appreciate your evidence for this.

Two TOC's I've worked for requested this on job application! The basic CRB does not show certain convictions, only an enhanced one. Hence the TOC ask you to confirm rather than using enhanced CRB when for certain job profiles. Hope this helps.

 

[Pete C]

I can't speak for other TOCs / FOCs but Freightliner asked me to get a certificate from Disclosure Scotland (I live in England) rather than the DBS for England and Wales - when I checked what the difference was I found that Disclosure Scotland don't put spent convictions on the certificate whereas in some cases the DBS do.

I think under the 1974 act only certain organisations are allowed to know about spent convictions so that could be why.

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Two TOC's I've worked for requested this on job application! The basic CRB does not show certain convictions, only an enhanced one. Hence the TOC ask you to confirm rather than using enhanced CRB when for certain job profiles. Hope this helps.

Its a bit more complicated than that now as since 2013 there is a list of offences that can be filtered and that won't show up on a DBS check. - including drink driving. It is also illegal for an employer to take action on a conviction that wouldn't have needed to be disclosed. So if you had a spent conviction for drink driving but for some reason it appeared on your DBS and your potential employer refused you the job because of it, then that would be illegal. I think there is a push for the wording to be changed on job application forms to something like this -

Do you have any convictions, cautions, reprimands or final warnings that are not “protected” as defined by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975 (as amended in 2013)

its all a bit of a minefield!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I very much doubt TOCs are doing enhanced DBS checks, as TOC staff don't work in regulated activity that would require them, and there isn't much scope for "can but don't have to" - mostly they are either mandatory or prohibited. Basic checks (non-spent convictions only) maybe - a lot of employers do these. Mostly they go through Disclosure Scotland even if you don't live in Scotland.

 

[nuts & bolts]

I very much doubt TOCs are doing enhanced DBS checks, as TOC staff don't work in regulated activity that would require them, and there isn't much scope for "can but don't have to" - mostly they are either mandatory or prohibited. Basic checks (non-spent convictions only) maybe - a lot of employers do these. Mostly they go through Disclosure Scotland even if you don't live in Scotland.

Regulated activity whilst working with a TOC would be Monies and Cash regulations also working with the Vunerable, minors and persons with limited mobility.

 

[dctraindriver]

Two TOC's I've worked for requested this on job application! The basic CRB does not show certain convictions, only an enhanced one. Hence the TOC ask you to confirm rather than using enhanced CRB when for certain job profiles. Hope this helps.

That’s requested though, and things may have changed since then, and as it’s a basic check if spent you don’t declare it simple as that. As for reference checking, well my current TOC left that for 2 months after I started......

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regulated activity whilst working with a TOC would be Monies and Cash regulations

This does not require an Enhanced DBS check unless a Charity Trustee.

also working with the Vunerable, minors and persons with limited mobility.

Simply working with those people is not necessarily a trigger (as otherwise shop workers would be eligible and they categorically are not), but in any case even if it does apply it will only apply to a very narrow set of staff - certainly not non-DOO drivers, for instance.

Regulated Activity (capital R, capital A) has a very specific meaning, and is not the same as "regulated activity". I half recall it being worded as "providing teaching, training or supervision of children or vulnerable adults" - a TOC does not provide an unaccompanied minors service (nor equivalent service for vulnerable adults) and therefore is not doing any of these - minors are only meant to be on public trains alone in circumstances where they do not require face to face supervision, while TOC assistance is basically limited to physical and practical needs e.g. the ramp and where the person's seat is.

 

[nuts & bolts]

This does not require an Enhanced DBS check unless a Charity Trustee.

That’s requested though, and things may have changed since then, and as it’s a basic check if spent you don’t declare it simple as that. As for reference checking, well my current TOC left that for 2 months after I started......

Once you have accepted the job offered you will be given another references form to complete in case your referees require updating, also on this form is a declaration to sign regarding spent/unspent convictions to declare - I have forgotten the exact wording and act.

As already mentioned an enhanced CRB is not required, the TOC will check that any convictions spent/unspent have been declared for certain job profiles!

(QUOTE=Bletchleyvite, Simply working with those people is not necessarily a trigger (as otherwise shop workers would be eligible and they categorically are not), but in any case even if it does apply it will only apply to a very narrow set of staff - certainly not non-DOO drivers, for instance.

Regulated Activity (capital R, capital A) has a very specific meaning, and is not the same as "regulated activity". I half recall it being worded as "providing teaching, training or supervision of children or vulnerable adults" - a TOC does not provide an unaccompanied minors service (nor equivalent service for vulnerable adults) and therefore is not doing any of these - minors are only meant to be on public trains alone in circumstances where they do not require face to face supervision, while TOC assistance is basically limited to physical and practical needs e.g. the ramp and where the person's seat is.

You are quite correct

 

[Llanigraham]

You’d only be dismissed if you know you should declare it and haven’t. I have to undergo yearly vetting so it’s a bit different for me, but once employed, Rail staff (or staff in most jobs to be honest) don’t have to have further DBS checks done. These certificates only last 1 to 3 years so should be renewed.

Once you have signed your Contract of Employment then legally you know what you should do, even if you couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing.
I'm sure you know that "ignorance is no defence"

 

[NorvernRob]

Haha! I feel that your career may go a little bit further than his...

Yeah let’s hope so!