Downfall in OLE

[FraserW08]

Hi there

I've been given a topic for my dissertation to look at the downfalls in the OLE. I've looked into this online quickly and struggling to find any problems. Does anyone have any websites to look at or know of any issues with the OLE?

Thanks Fraser

 

[Domh245]

What sort of downfalls? You could look at things like cost of installation, the need to stop the trains to install it,visual intrusiveness, reliability of different types of OLE in service, and many others. Might be a worth looking through this thread (and the threads linked within) as well

 

[6Gman]

Hi there

I've been given a topic for my dissertation to look at the downfalls in the OLE. I've looked into this online quickly and struggling to find any problems. Does anyone have any websites to look at or know of any issues with the OLE?

Thanks Fraser

What do you mean by "downfalls"? Drawbacks? Collapses of wiring?

 

[FraserW08]

What sort of downfalls? You could look at things like cost of installation, the need to stop the trains to install it,visual intrusiveness, reliability of different types of OLE in service, and many others. Might be a worth looking through this thread (and the threads linked within) as well

Should have been more specific with my original post, its an engineering project so would be looking for an problem and a solution to it. Not sure maybe the materials cold be improved or something else, I'm a bit lost to be honest and not enjoying engineering isn't helping but its my final year. Maybe you have a better idea for a project related to rail? Thanks

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Traditionally the problem with BR electrification systems (particularly East Coast Main Line) have been vulnerability to wind-damage. However the GWML electrification has 'solved' this problem through massive over-engineering so I would say the principle difficulty is now poor value for money due to excessive cost.

Can I ask which specific engineering discipline you are studying? The railway has such a broad engineering base it might help to focus people's ideas.

 

[DarloRich]

Main downfall: Money. There isnt enough

 

[FraserW08]

What do you mean by "downfalls"? Drawbacks? Collapses of wiring?

Traditionally the problem with BR electrification systems (particularly East Coast Main Line) have been vulnerability to wind-damage. However the GWML electrification has 'solved' this problem through massive over-engineering so I would say the principle difficulty is now poor value for money due to excessive cost.

Can I ask which specific engineering discipline you are studying? The railway has such a broad engineering base it might help to focus people's ideas.

Studying Mechanical Engineering

 

[edwin_m]

It would be interesting to see how the GW electrification scheme got so late and so over budget, but I doubt you'd get much useful data from anybody.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I did a BSc in Civil Engineering and didn't particularly enjoy it either, so I can relate to your situation. Well done for persisting.

I would see electrification as being more aligned with civil rather than mechanical engineering. With a final year dissertation the trick is to find a subject 'question' that you can explore in sufficient depth to fill your word count (mine was 15000 words) without running out of ideas or having to cut short to meet the count, plus some investigative practical work so it's not just a desk study repeating other people's work.

My dissertation studied the life cycles of railway ballast under different types of contamination. Sounds mega-boring, but I was able to set up a repetitive loading rig in the lab and demonstrate the impact of loss of angularity due to contamination, use some real-world track geometry data acquired from Network Rail and do a critical study of the maintenance standards. Together these different parts got me a First on the project and dragged my degree across the line for a 2.1 with honours.

Try and find something that is relevant to current affairs and has some aspect that you will find personally interesting. Access to real-world information sources is also very useful. Do you have any friends / family on the railway?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

You could study the impact that recent changes to standards governing minimum electrical clearances are having on UK electrification projects? Very topical and allows you to research modern standards, touch on the political issues and also potentially carry out some experimentation? (Although I'll be impressed if you can design an experiment involving 25000V that a university will sanction!)

In all seriousness get a couple of years-worth of back issues of Modern Railways and read the Informed Sources column by Roger Ford. You'll get a feel for the subject pretty quickly and he's reasonably impartial and very well informed. He's also very helpful and willing to answer email questions from readers.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Downfall in OLE

Surely I am not the only person who opened the thread hoping to see a spoof video about the cancellation of Cardiff to Swansea and Kettering to Sheffield and Nottingham...?

 

[IanXC]

A couple of other thoughts:

Bridge reconstruction is an expensive activity - there was talk of a process of 'jacking up' existing structures on the Windermere branch as a pilot for cutting cost. In this instance the ultimate cost cutting option has been taken with the wiring of that branch being cancelled.

In the Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk High electrification project there was an issue encountered with, I believe (I'm no engineer!), a part which was not holding cables sufficiently well, potentially a more directly 'Mechanical' problem? http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/HS2/egip-electrification-delayed-again-due-to-safety-

 

[FraserW08]

I did a BSc in Civil Engineering and didn't particularly enjoy it either, so I can relate to your situation. Well done for persisting.

I would see electrification as being more aligned with civil rather than mechanical engineering. With a final year dissertation the trick is to find a subject 'question' that you can explore in sufficient depth to fill your word count (mine was 15000 words) without running out of ideas or having to cut short to meet the count, plus some investigative practical work so it's not just a desk study repeating other people's work.

My dissertation studied the life cycles of railway ballast under different types of contamination. Sounds mega-boring, but I was able to set up a repetitive loading rig in the lab and demonstrate the impact of loss of angularity due to contamination, use some real-world track geometry data acquired from Network Rail and do a critical study of the maintenance standards. Together these different parts got me a First on the project and dragged my degree across the line for a 2.1 with honours.

Try and find something that is relevant to current affairs and has some aspect that you will find personally interesting. Access to real-world information sources is also very useful. Do you have any friends / family on the railway?

Congrats on the 2:1 hoping for the same but wouldn't be surprised if i got a 2:2, my own fault though and ill admit it as i don't enjoy it and don't do as much work as i probably should. That's exactly my problem, apart from finding a problem, making it a practical project as well. Your project sounds pretty good actually, results shows that as well. No friends or family within rail however my adviser has contacts with scotrail, babcock rail, SNC Lavalin so i need to sort my topic out, I've already changed it and looks like i might have to again and i have a interim report due soon so need something asap. Just read your second reply, how would you be able to make an experiment out of that, forgetting voltages etc. Ill go have a look into the subject now anyway, thanks!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Scotland's electrification project has been particularly hard hit by the electrification clearances issue so it might be worth feeling out your Scotrail contacts?

Good luck with the project, hope it comes together.

 

[AndrewE]

To me the biggest problem is the "topic"

downfalls in the OLE.

It's not English as we use it, so has the subject been set by an East European with a dictionary? Downfall usually means the metaphorical lowering of someone from on high! As the variety of replies trying to help point out, it could be meant to intend a discussion of physical collapse or other failures or even just vulnerabilities, or our current apparent inability to do the engineering and installation effectively, or the loss of political will and public support for public transport investment. I would hope that all of these aspects would be touched on in a civil engineering course, but the question isn't worth trying to answer as it stands.

 

[snowball]

When the wires come down I think it's usually called dewirement?

 

[RJ21]

You could take a look through the archive of RAIB reports, there's been a few dewirements reported on, usually where there was mechanical of the conductor or supporting wires and the fixings between them. I'd suggest the report involving the serious injury to a Virgin Trains driver near Runcorn as one which comes immediately to mind. Run a search on the RAIB section within the gov.uk website restricting it to heavy rail, I searched for overhead, the report I refer to above is the serious injury at Sutton Weaver.

 

[matt_world2004]

Didnt ole equipment obstructing signals cause the ladbroke grove rail crash?

Also not nessescarily applies to Britain but OLE can make a rail network weaker against natural disasters and enemy attack

 

[fowler9]

Studying Mechanical Engineering

Can I ask why you studied Engineering and aren't enjoying Engineering? I honestly only ask because I did the same. All the very best to you and I hope you get to where you want to be.

 

[fowler9]

I did a BSc in Civil Engineering and didn't particularly enjoy it either, so I can relate to your situation. Well done for persisting.

I would see electrification as being more aligned with civil rather than mechanical engineering. With a final year dissertation the trick is to find a subject 'question' that you can explore in sufficient depth to fill your word count (mine was 15000 words) without running out of ideas or having to cut short to meet the count, plus some investigative practical work so it's not just a desk study repeating other people's work.

My dissertation studied the life cycles of railway ballast under different types of contamination. Sounds mega-boring, but I was able to set up a repetitive loading rig in the lab and demonstrate the impact of loss of angularity due to contamination, use some real-world track geometry data acquired from Network Rail and do a critical study of the maintenance standards. Together these different parts got me a First on the project and dragged my degree across the line for a 2.1 with honours.

Try and find something that is relevant to current affairs and has some aspect that you will find personally interesting. Access to real-world information sources is also very useful. Do you have any friends / family on the railway?

Congratulations on the degree you got, that is amazing. I really wish I had the focus you did to come out with a 2.1. I realised within a couple of months that I was on the wrong course, I never had the confidence to change though. I should have been doing something totally different.

 

[Chris M]

You could take a look through the archive of RAIB reports, there's been a few dewirements reported on, usually where there was mechanical of the conductor or supporting wires and the fixings between them. I'd suggest the report involving the serious injury to a Virgin Trains driver near Runcorn as one which comes immediately to mind. Run a search on the RAIB section within the gov.uk website restricting it to heavy rail, I searched for overhead, the report I refer to above is the serious injury at Sutton Weaver.

The incident on the Tyne & Wear Metro where live OHLE parted and fell onto an occupied platform might be useful reading too.
https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/parting-of-live-overhead-wire-at-walkergate

 

[snowball]

I've seen RAIB reports for an incident at St Pancras (Channel Tunnel rail link) and an incident between Weaver Junction and Liverpool. A driver got a serious shock in the latter incident.

 

[jayah]

It would be interesting to see how the GW electrification scheme got so late and so over budget, but I doubt you'd get much useful data from anybody.

Probably because the budget is determined by the requirement to achieve a 'pass' at the business case when there really isn't one. I bet nobody in the room expected the outturn to be less than double.

Then there is the age old problem of making fantastic assumptions about new and totally unproven technology to make the impossible look possible, evidenced by moving block signalling on WCRM, Jubilee Line extension and then the high output electrification train.

There are already a few inquiries and reports published and no doubt more to follow.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Headspans can be more troublesome, an increased chance of if one line comes down of it taking the rest with it (don't know what the % increase in the chance is)

 

[AndrewE]

It seems that you are looking for a problem to discuss...

We do have vulnerabilities as the current ECML performance shows, which might have been the result of "value engineering" as BR tried to do the job more cheaply than the original WCML project. To my unqualified eye the Western electrification now seems to have gone over the top in the strength of the steelwork being installed...
I have a feeling it may have been done already, but a straightforward and economical way of replacing the ECML headspans with rigid steel horizontals would be welcome...
Looks like another good (but dated) article here:
https://www.railengineer.uk/2013/04/15/a-bad-wire-day/

 

[rebmcr]

We still haven't been told what was meant by "downfall".

Is it:
• Reasons that count against the use of OHLE? ("Drawbacks")
• Reasons for OHLE to come off its supports? ("Dewirements")
• Reasons for the reduction in planned OHLE installations? (Political/funding etc.)
• Something else?

 

[Crossover]

A couple of other thoughts:

Bridge reconstruction is an expensive activity - there was talk of a process of 'jacking up' existing structures on the Windermere branch as a pilot for cutting cost. In this instance the ultimate cost cutting option has been taken with the wiring of that branch being cancelled.

In the Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk High electrification project there was an issue encountered with, I believe (I'm no engineer!), a part which was not holding cables sufficiently well, potentially a more directly 'Mechanical' problem? http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/HS2/egip-electrification-delayed-again-due-to-safety-

If not bridge reconstruction, the other option has been to lower the trackbed in some places. The recent programme focussed on GWR showed, very briefly, the trackbed being lowered as the bridge they needed to get under was listed. I believe they have also done similar on GOBLIN, along with some hefty closures to do the work!