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Dover Western Dock St. ?

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duesselmartin

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Hello all,

I am wondering what stock was used on these boat trains to London in the 1980s? Was it EMU only or have there been loco hauled trains?

Google did not help.

Thank you and best wishes from Germany.

Martin
 
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Gloster

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There is also an entry on the Disused Stations website, including a fair collection of photos. (Sorry, I can’t do a link.)
 

30907

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Much as already stated - from electrification boat trains were typically 12-car CEP-BEP-CEP or all-CEP plus a MLV Motor Luggage Van (or 2, or 1 plus a Trailer TLV briefly). The local service via Canterbury, when it was introduced, was a single 4-CEP.
4-VEPs and 4-CIGs later appeared (and I imagine 2-HAPs, but not on boat trains!).
The exceptions were the Golden Arrow until 1972 and the Night Ferry until 1980.

After that, there were years (from 1986 to closure) when inter-regional aka cross-country services went there.
Try http://www.1s76.com/1S76 1979.htm if you want the detail year by year.
 

AY1975

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Much as already stated - from electrification boat trains were typically 12-car CEP-BEP-CEP or all-CEP plus a MLV Motor Luggage Van (or 2, or 1 plus a Trailer TLV briefly). The local service via Canterbury, when it was introduced, was a single 4-CEP.
4-VEPs and 4-CIGs later appeared (and I imagine 2-HAPs, but not on boat trains!).
Until the CEP/BEP fleet was refurbished in the early 1980s boat trains were often formed CEP-BEP-CEP, though I don't know if all Dover and Folkestone boat trains had buffet cars until that time.

In the early 1980s the South Eastern Division withdrew all buffet facilities, including on boat trains (although from about the mid to late 1980s refreshment trolleys started to appear on some Kent Coast services, and by the early '90s they were more widespread), so from then onwards boat trains were generally formed 12-CEP. See also this now closed thread on the withdrawal of buffet cars on the SED: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ng-before-the-central-division-did-so.208322/

The SED had VEPs from the early 1970s but didn't get its own allocation of CIGs until the early 1990s. CEPs and VEPs often tended to be used interchangeably on normal service trains on the Kent Coast routes, but as I recall boat trains were fairly consistently CEPs at least until their last few years of operation in the early '90s. I would guess that after their refurbishment BR thought the CEPs would present a more modern image to foreign visitors than the VEPs or CIGs. VEPs and CIGs did occasionally turn up on boat trains, though.
 

Taunton

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The boat trains were very seasonal, both between summer/winter, and individually by day of the week. There was quite a lot of ecs running to keep stock available at both ends. Each mainstream ship departure had a set with a BEP buffet in it, but as the ships held up to around 2,000 passengers each there were commonly buffet-less reliefs, running just before Down to Dover and just behind on the Up journey. Sometimes even the most popular ships were duplicated with relief vessels, and then there was a considerable extra effort to run supplementary services.

At the Victoria end the international passengers tended to turn up well before time, in substantial numbers, and were a considerable nuisance on the concourse, so it was good to pack many of them into an earlier relief and send a trainload down to Dover, where they in turn had big queues to handle before the ship opened.

The MLV were added to the London end of these trains, which suited both Dover, where they were shunted on batteries forward from the train at the platform, and then in parallel down the quayside, where the baggage was loaded into rope slings and craned aboard. Likewise at Victoria there was a customs inspection point at the barrier of platform 8, and possibly others, where arriving checked bags were taken inside to be claimed. I have never quite got how this worked between having customs inspection done at either Dover or at Victoria, nor how the bags might be in the main train but their passengers in a relief, arriving in another platform. On Down journeys the driver was in the 1/3 width CEP cab, but on Up journeys they had the full width cab of the MLV. I believe some busy services had two MLVs, a 14-coach train, making them the longest emus on BR.

At a very youthful age, probably in 1962, we travelled by one such on the return from Ostend, and patronised the BEP buffet, where I was, as some sort of supposed huge treat, given my first ever Pepsi-Cola. It was not chilled, served tepid, and I disliked it not only then but ever since, preferring its well-known rival. Also still recall that buffet car had a small plaque inside saying it was the first installation of air-conditioning in such a vehicle. Many years later I found out which BEP set it was that had this pioneering novelty.
 

30907

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I have never quite got how this worked between having customs inspection done at either Dover or at Victoria, nor how the bags might be in the main train but their passengers in a relief, arriving in another platform.
I've always assumed it worked like airport baggage reclaim, and being on the relief 20min later didn't much matter.
 

Gloster

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I have a vague feeling that at one time they may have put tables out on the arrival platform at Victoria and inspected the luggage on these. Presumably the luggage would be hauled out of the van onto the platform, with maybe some still in the van, the passenger would present their luggage ticket, the bags would be extracted and inspected, duty etc. sorted out and then, “Portaah. Take my cases to the cab rank.” Some luggage would not be collected immediately and so would be taken to the Luggage Office and, presumably, put in a separate area to be inspected and collected later. Which presumes that there were customs staff all day. Whether this was an all-year-round practice or just one used in peak periods to reduce the scrum at the Luggage Office, I know not.
 
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