Doubling back when slower more direct trains are available

[Urban Gateline]

Is this allowed?

I have had instances when working of passengers with Basingstoke/Farnborough to Wimbledon/Earlsfield SDS/SDR tickets, trying to exit at Clapham Junction, the barriers reject these tickets.

I pass them on to the RPI I'm working with and they always say it is fine to change at Clapham Junction with those tickets, although I am not so sure...however I can't argue with them so I let the passenger go.

Can someone with better routing knowledge than me (easy!) explain if the above tickets are valid via Clapham Junction or if a change at Woking and slower train to their destination is more appropriate than doubling back?

I have checked the fares and the Price from Basingstoke/Farnborough to Clapham Junction is nearly £2 more than that of to Wimbledon/Earlsfield so my logical conclusion is telling me it is not valid!

 

[Brucey]

Easement #80 allows this

Journeys from or via Basingstoke to Wimbledon may double back from Clapham Junction. This easement applies in both directions.

A few other CLJ related doubling back easements you may also be interested in

30193
Customers travelling from Chessington to Basingstoke may doubleback between Wimbledon and Clapham Junction. This easement applies in both directions.

700013
Tickets with the following route codes may be used to double back between Clapham Junction and London Victoria. (Any Permitted, London, London Not Underground, Not Valid on HS1, AP London Woking)

700014
Tickets with the following route codes may be used to double back between Clapham Junction and London Waterloo. (Any Permitted, London, London Not Underground, Not Valid on HS1, AP London Woking)

 

[Urban Gateline]

Thank you for providing those easements Brucey, that clears up the Basingstoke tickets. Another thought though is that those tickets may be valid for interchange at Clapham Junction, however are they valid for BOJ at a station further down the line to which a direct ticket would have been more expensive?

If the answer is no then I guess an excess is payable to what the Basingstoke to Clapham Junction fare would have been.

Now just not sure about Farnborough-Wimbledon/Earlsfield, for which I would argue that the change in Woking is needed to take the direct stopping service from there.

 

[Brucey]

They are valid for Break of Journey at Clapham Junction, or any other intermediate station.

The fare is irrelevant when it comes to breaking a journey. All that matters is that the route is valid.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Why don't we shout this very loudly so that commuters can simply buy Season tickets to Wimbledon so they can save money and "break" their journey at Clapham when the relevant Season ticket to finish at Clapham would have been more expensive

 

[Brucey]

Why don't we shout this very loudly so that commuters can simply buy Season tickets to Wimbledon so they can save money and "break" their journey at Clapham when the relevant Season ticket to finish at Clapham would have been more expensive

Because we wouldn't want the "loophole" to be shut down

There's another example like this on the south coast, which is blindingly obvious when you've discovered it. It reduces an annual season ticket by roughly £300 (about 1/5 of the total fare). Never needed to use it myself, but it has existed for years.

 

[John @ home]

those tickets may be valid for interchange at Clapham Junction, however are they valid for BOJ at a station further down the line to which a direct ticket would have been more expensive?

If the answer is no then I guess an excess is payable to what the Basingstoke to Clapham Junction fare would have been.

But the answer is yes.

All tickets between Farnborough Stations and Wimbledon permit breaks of either or both legs of the journey.

brfares.com presents this information more clearly than any official rail industry source. See, for example, the Specific Restrictions and General Conditions for the cheapest ticket, the Super Off-Peak Day Return.

It is very disappointing that SWT do not provide adequate training on these matters to gateline staff.

 

[Urban Gateline]

But the answer is yes.

All tickets between Farnborough Stations and Wimbledon permit breaks of either or both legs of the journey.

Of course Break of Journey is allowed between Farnborough and Wimbledon, however nowhere does it say that this ticket is valid for doubling back between Clapham Junction and Wimbledon rather than changing at Woking for the stopper service. In fact this is backed up by itinaries made on TOC sites which show the change at Woking.

It is very disappointing that SWT do not provide adequate training on these matters to gateline staff.

What did you expect tbh? Gateline is the most basic frontline role and the company try to finish training as quickly as possible to get us into manning the barriers. Ticketing was only a very general 1 day training course provided to all Gateline staff with no local information to relate to where we'd be based. Most of what I know has been learnt on the job with help of ticket office and revenue staff!

 

[Brucey]

nowhere does it say that this ticket is valid for doubling back between Clapham Junction and Wimbledon rather than changing at Woking for the stopper service.

I cannot find anything that would make this valid. In addition, National Rail Enquiries tells you to buy two tickets (Farnborough to CLJ, then CLJ to Wimbledon).

 

[Urban Gateline]

I cannot find anything that would make this valid. In addition, National Rail Enquiries tells you to buy two tickets (Farnborough to CLJ, then CLJ to Wimbledon).

Thanks for that,
Interestingly also fares from Reading to Wandsworth Town seems to be the same as Reading to Clapham Junction and routing the journey via Clapham Junction brings out the same fare (£14.50 SDS), whereas to Putney is £14.20 (SDS) and journeys are routed as a change at Richmond.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....In addition, National Rail Enquiries tells you to buy two tickets (Farnborough to CLJ, then CLJ to Wimbledon).

NRES is not perfect (no journey planner is unfortunately), look up Patricroft to Wigan and tell me by which route I can use the £3.80 'Rte Any Permitted' Off-Peak Single (CDS).