Doubling back query

[travelred]

Hi,

Wonder if someone far more knowledgeable than I can assist, please.

Looking at a journey from Manchester to Wolverhampton stopping at all stations on the Crewe-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton lines on Sunday (before continuing south on more express services!).

The split ticketing sites are suggesting a single ticket Manchester - Wrenbury, then another Wrenbury - Wolverhampton. They are suggesting travelling TfW from MAN to Whitchurch, then doubling back one stop with TfW to Wrenbury (2 hourly service pattern at this request stop) before then continuing on services to Shrewsbury then on to Wolverhampton.

Checking the validity of the double-back Whitchurch to Wrenbury via the NRE booking engine, and it only shows the direct 2 hourly services between Manchester and Wrenbury as being available options. I can't see anything detailed in the easements.

Tried the routing guide for Manchester to Wrenbury; the Routing Point Calculator shows that Manchester Group and Crewe are the origin and destination routing points, and this has one permitted route on the maps. Wrenbury and Whitchurch are both south of Crewe though, so I'm a little puzzled. Not sure if this is relevant, but the double back would be 4.75 miles.

Are the split ticketing sites offering me a valid route or not, please?

Thanks!

 

[Watershed]

Hi,

Wonder if someone far more knowledgeable than I can assist, please.

Looking at a journey from Manchester to Wolverhampton stopping at all stations on the Crewe-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton lines on Sunday (before continuing south on more express services!).

The split ticketing sites are suggesting a single ticket Manchester - Wrenbury, then another Wrenbury - Wolverhampton. They are suggesting travelling TfW from MAN to Whitchurch, then doubling back one stop with TfW to Wrenbury (2 hourly service pattern at this request stop) before then continuing on services to Shrewsbury then on to Wolverhampton.

Checking the validity of the double-back Whitchurch to Wrenbury via the NRE booking engine, and it only shows the direct 2 hourly services between Manchester and Wrenbury as being available options. I can't see anything detailed in the easements.

Tried the routing guide for Manchester to Wrenbury; the Routing Point Calculator shows that Manchester Group and Crewe are the origin and destination routing points, and this has one permitted route on the maps. Wrenbury and Whitchurch are both south of Crewe though, so I'm a little puzzled. Not sure if this is relevant, but the double back would be 4.75 miles.

Are the split ticketing sites offering me a valid route or not, please?

Thanks!

The itinerary and route offered by a journey planner, in conjunction with the sale of a ticket, is contractually valid regardless of what the Routeing Guide says.

Nevertheless, I agree that there is no apparent reason why the double-back is offered by journey planners.

A ticket from Manchester to one of the stations between Shifnal and Bilbrook may end up being cheaper at £36.40 for an Off-Peak Return. This is valid for travel both via Wolverhampton and via Shrewsbury. However, you would need to use a train that stopped at your chosen "destination", which most TfW services don't (they tend to run non-stop Telford to Wolverhampton).

Alternatively you could buy an Off-Peak Day Return from Manchester to Shrewsbury, route not via Wolverhampton, and obtain a change of route excess to use the return portion via Wolverhampton.

This would cost £36.15 in total; note that as a result of the time restrictions on that ticket, on weekdays you would be limited to commencing your outward journey between 09:30 and 15:59, or from 18:30 onwards. The return portion (which would be excessed to "Any Permitted") would be valid from 09:30 onwards with no evening restriction, and would be valid for use on all trains between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton and you could make the journey either way around, as suits you best.

 

[travelred]

The itinerary and route offered by a journey planner, in conjunction with the sale of a ticket, is contractually valid regardless of what the Routeing Guide says.

Nevertheless, I agree that there is no apparent reason why the double-back is offered by journey planners.

A ticket from Manchester to one of the stations between Shifnal and Bilbrook may end up being cheaper at £36.40 for an Off-Peak Return. This is valid for travel both via Wolverhampton and via Shrewsbury. However, you would need to use a train that stopped at your chosen "destination", which most TfW services don't (they tend to run non-stop Telford to Wolverhampton).

Alternatively you could buy an Off-Peak Day Return from Manchester to Shrewsbury, route not via Wolverhampton, and obtain a change of route excess to use the return portion via Wolverhampton.

This would cost £36.15 in total; note that as a result of the time restrictions on that ticket, on weekdays you would be limited to commencing your outward journey between 09:30 and 15:59, or from 18:30 onwards. The return portion (which would be excessed to "Any Permitted") would be valid from 09:30 onwards with no evening restriction, and would be valid for use on all trains between Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton and you could make the journey either way around, as suits you best.

Thanks!

 

[sonic2009]

Are you just doing a one way journey from Manchester to Wolverhampton ?

 

[travelred]

Are you just doing a one way journey from Manchester to Wolverhampton ?

Effectively. Continuing south as far as Coventry then returning on the XC direct service later on.

 

[bspahh]

Could you get a West Midlands Day Ranger
http://www.railrover.org/pages/west-midlands-day-ranger.html (£28.80)? It would let you go anywhere from Crewe to Wolverhampton, Shrewsbury and Coventry with no restrictions on a weekend.

You could get a day return for £9.60 from Manchester to Crewe with Transport for Wales, or advances. For the Cross Country trains the West Midlands Day Ranger would cover you to Stoke on Trent.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does the West Midlands Day Ranger allow the OP to travel from Crewe to Shrewsbury (via Whitchurch)?

 

[sonic2009]

Does the West Midlands Day Ranger allow the OP to travel from Crewe to Shrewsbury?

No, it doesn't cover the Crewe - Hereford line.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==

Effectively. Continuing south as far as Coventry then returning on the XC direct service later on.

So do you hold a ticket for XC to return on the Sunday?

So effectively you wish to do this journey :

Manchester - Coventry but the requirement to travel via the local TFW services in the Shrewsbury area.

 

[travelred]

No, it doesn't cover the Crewe - Hereford line.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==



So do you hold a ticket for XC to return on the Sunday?

So effectively you wish to do this journey :

Manchester - Coventry but the requirement to travel via the local TFW services in the Shrewsbury area.

Correct. Ultimately it's a return trip to Coventry but looking to vary the outbound route. No tickets purchased at all at this stage.

I could purchase Manchester - Shrewsbury and Stoke - Manchester with the Day Ranger covering the rest of the journey. I've also just noticed that by changing at Crewe onto the local stopper I'd take away the doubling back issue that raised the question in the first place! The split ticketing site didn't suggest that as an option...

 

[sonic2009]

Here's my suggestion, and hopefully people can agree (it's a while since I've done a detailed fare)

Manchester Piccadilly - Macclesfield CDR via Stockport £10.90
Adlington (Cheshire) - Shrewsbury SVR Any Permitted £29.10
Wolverhampton - Coventry West Midlands Daytripper £6.90

Take any train from Manchester - Crewe for the TFW stopper to Shrewsbury using the outward portion of MAN - MAC ticket & outward portion ADC - SHR ticket
(NRG easement 030105 allows ADC - SHR ticket to be used via Stockport)

Use the return portion of ADC - SHR ticket from SHR to WVH then BOJ on this ticket to use the West Midlands Daytripper to Coventry and back, then use the ADC - SHR ticket as far as MAC on XC, then use return portion of MAC - MAN ticket.

Total cost : £46.90 (there may be something cheaper).

Actually an SVR as previously mentioned by Watershed between Manchester and Shifnal is cheaper....

 

[travelred]

Here's my suggestion, and hopefully people can agree (it's a while since I've done a detailed fare)

Manchester Piccadilly - Macclesfield CDR via Stockport £10.90
Adlington (Cheshire) - Shrewsbury SVR Any Permitted £29.10
Wolverhampton - Coventry West Midlands Daytripper £6.90

Take any train from Manchester - Crewe for the TFW stopper to Shrewsbury using the outward portion of MAN - MAC ticket & outward portion ADC - SHR ticket
(NRG easement 030105 allows ADC - SHR ticket to be used via Stockport)

Use the return portion of ADC - SHR ticket from SHR to WVH then BOJ on this ticket to use the West Midlands Daytripper to Coventry and back, then use the ADC - SHR ticket as far as MAC on XC, then use return portion of MAC - MAN ticket.

Total cost : £46.90 (there may be something cheaper).

Actually an SVR as previously mentioned by Watershed between Manchester and Shifnal is cheaper....

Thanks!

Would never have come up with that as an option!