Double Pendolino

[Phil Atack]

On 16th January Avanti WC service 1S72 at 14.30 from Euston to Glasgow Central shows on RTT as being operated by 390103 & 390112. Did anyone see it? I don't recall ever seeing 2 Pendolino units operating together.

 

[Darandio]

It's just an error in the data. Happens now and again if there is a set swap etc.

 

[hexagon789]

On 16th January Avanti WC service 1S72 at 14.30 from Euston to Glasgow Central shows on RTT as being operated by 390103 & 390112. Did anyone see it? I don't recall ever seeing 2 Pendolino units operating together.

It'll be that one unit was the original allocation, the other the actual allocation.

When the allocation was changed, someone omitted to delete the original one.

It happens from time to time, you get double 9-car Azumas and IETs showing on RTT as well for instance.

Asides from there not being long enough platforms for a double 390, it's simply not practical.

So it's just an error because of the way the allocations are done and changes needing manual input and humans make mistakes on occasion such as forgetting to delete one unit off the allocation when changing it

 

[High Dyke]

Only ran as 390112 throughout.

 

[hexagon789]

To add, I think it was actually 112. 103 appears to have worked south on 9M51 from Glasgow via Birmingham and returned from Euston on 1H25 to Manchester.

 

[Phil Atack]

Thanks everyone for the clarification

 

[800001]

It'll be that one unit was the original allocation, the other the actual allocation.

When the allocation was changed, someone omitted to delete the original one.

It happens from time to time, you get double 9-car Azumas and IETs showing on RTT as well for instance.

Asides from there not being long enough platforms for a double 390, it's simply not practical.

So it's just an error because of the way the allocations are done and changes needing manual input and humans make mistakes on occasion such as forgetting to delete one unit off the allocation when changing it

99.9% of the time the set swap is done exactly as it should do, however the date does not feed down to things like RTT correctly, hence the 18 car Azumas etc!
And that is me speaking from experience of doing Set swaps correctly, and seeing incorrect formations on RTT.

 

[hexagon789]

99.9% of the time the set swap is done exactly as it should do, however the date does not feed down to things like RTT correctly, hence the 18 car Azumas etc!
And that is me speaking from experience of doing Set swaps correctly, and seeing incorrect formations on RTT.

Apologies then, in previous threads on this subject I got the impression the issue was with the data RTT was receiving and the superfluous allocation not being removed at source rather than a fault of RTT itself.

 

[Tom]

RTT generally shows precisely what is sent to it apart from the occasional time when we have an error. In general there's three systems on the way to get it to us, and the glitches normally occur in the one just before us. I've reported issues in that before and will continue to do so but to identify exact issues it is helpful to know when set swaps take place at the TOC end. Easier said than done.

 

[Lytham Local]

There is a video that has 2 Pendolino's coupled together. Don't know if this is / was a common event.

I imagine that only Colchester would be able to handle it!

 

[zwk500]

RTT generally shows precisely what is sent to it apart from the occasional time when we have an error. In general there's three systems on the way to get it to us, and the glitches normally occur in the one just before us. I've reported issues in that before and will continue to do so but to identify exact issues it is helpful to know when set swaps take place at the TOC end. Easier said than done.

I guess that as RTT can handle planned changes of allocations en-route (e.g. Split/Joins) it would have the capability to show a direct unplanned swap en-route if given the data correctly? It may already do so (I don't think I've personally seen it).

There is a video that has 2 Pendolino's coupled together. Don't know if this is / was a common event.

I believe this was a test run to demonstrate the ability for emergency working.

I imagine that only Colchester would be able to handle it!

2x 11-Car pendos would be in the region of 520m, so I think Gloucester 1+2 would be able to handle it, the full length of 2+19 and 7+11 at Edinburgh (the only station to be served by Pendos that can, it seems), and the full face of 1+4 at Cambridge would also accept a double Pendo but the middle section has now been fenced off to give better clearance on the Scissors.

However, the unit wouldn't be fully platformed at Colchester, as the crossover at the buffers of P3 would bring the middle of the train away from the face. All measurements taken roughly from Google Maps, length of a 390/1 from wiki.

 

[Russel]

Double 390's never have and almost certainly never will run in passenger service, yet this question keeps cropping up...

 

[Class15]

2x 11-Car pendos would be in the region of 520m, so I think Gloucester 1+2 would be able to handle it

Good luck getting them down to Gloucester in the first place!

 

[MCR247]

I guess that as RTT can handle planned changes of allocations en-route (e.g. Split/Joins) it would have the capability to show a direct unplanned swap en-route if given the data correctly? It may already do so (I don't think I've personally seen it).

.

It does indeed show these correctly. Such set swaps occur somewhat frequently on EMRs Liverpool - Norwich at Nottingham, mainly to keep 158s and 170s separate.