Double gating

[badger1badger]

Hi everyone

There appears to be a scam which happens at Leeds and I am sure it could happen at other similer gates.

One boards a train from an unmanned station travels to Leeds with out a ticket.
On arrival at Leeds they get in a busy queue for the barriers, the fare paying customer opens the gate with the correct ticket. The dodger then goes through immediately up close to them and hey presto they are through

You just have to go to Leeds and watch - it must be costing toc 's a fortune

What do other people think and what ideas can be mentioned to stop this theft

 

[rmt4ever]

Lol. Doubling up, or tailgating is hardly new. I've seen it happen semi frequently for yearssssssss. If someone does it behind me I have had a go at them ! But most ordinary punters hardly notice.

Don't let it upset you, is the TOCs problem not yours

 

[Antman]

This also happens a lot in London, the silly thing is that on 'The Tube' TV series LU staff showed how easy it is to do.

 

[badger1badger]

Lol. Doubling up, or tailgating is hardly new. I've seen it happen semi frequently for yearssssssss. If someone does it behind me I have had a go at them ! But most ordinary punters hardly notice.

Don't let it upset you, is the TOCs problem not yours

I know what you mean but surely it is lost revenue. ..?

 

[Harpers Tate]

what ideas can be mentioned to stop this theft

Far more effective on-train checking/ticket sales.

Or not.

Why "or not"?

Well - if the revenue lost is less than the cost of preventing its loss, it's actually economic to allow it to be lost.

Personally, I'd look to subtly redefining the roles of the two members of staff who are present on every train such that the person who is not driving is able (and hence required) to pay greater attention to customers and revenue, except and unless a contingency situation arises.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If anyone gets that close behind me when I'm going through a barrier, I'll give 'em summat to think about...

 

[badger1badger]

Far more effective on-train checking/ticket sales.

Or not.

Why "or not"?

Well - if the revenue lost is less than the cost of preventing its loss, it's actually economic to allow it to be lost.

Personally, I'd look to subtly redefining the roles of the two members of staff who are present on every train such that the person who is not driving is able (and hence required) to pay greater attention to customers and revenue, except and unless a contingency situation arises.

I know what you mean - it is fare dodging plain and simple theft. The TOC would not hesitate to take you to court if you did not have a ticket on the train.

It is up to the TOC to ensure the fare paying people are not treated unfairly by allowing the dodgers to get away with it
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If anyone gets that close behind me when I'm going through a barrier, I'll give 'em summat to think about...

Yes me too !

 

[jopsuk]

Pretty sure I've seen gateline staff pull people up for that- and if caught it should hopefully be a full criminal prosecution for deliberate fare evasion.

 

[jon0844]

I've seen plain clothed inspectors at Farringdon pull people over for tailgating.

 

[island]

If anyone gets that close behind me when I'm going through a barrier, I'll give 'em summat to think about...

I blocked someone doing this behind me at Reading some months ago and pointed him out to the gateline attendant. He ended up getting reported for prosecution

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Never seen it done myself and I worked on a gateline.

 

[Mojo]

It happens so often and is so easy to do it doesn't bear thinking about. Certainly at my company if caught by an Inspector, whether a journey has been made or not, and on inspection the customer holds no valid ticket, it would be a matter for Regulation of Railways Act prosecution.

 

[asylumxl]

Someone tried to do it to me, so I stopped .

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Several times - slow right down going through - and I have "persuaded" a suit that did it to me that I was getting the CCTV downloaded and he would be nicked. No intention of course - but I hope he worried about it in his city office for a few days ...

 

[wilsontown]

I do this myself at Leeds sometimes, although I always have a valid season ticket. The problem is that the magnetic strip in the ticket sometimes stops working when there's still several weeks validity on the damned thing. You can try to find someone to let you through, but that can be a bit of a farce.

 

[LexyBoy]

I do this myself at Leeds sometimes, although I always have a valid season ticket. The problem is that the magnetic strip in the ticket sometimes stops working when there's still several weeks validity on the damned thing. You can try to find someone to let you through, but that can be a bit of a farce.

Be careful: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65229

Complain to the company which manages the station (Network Rail) about poor staffing if it is actually problematic to enter/leave the station.

 

[wilsontown]

Well there you go, there's something I didn't know, so thanks for that.

 

[island]

I do this myself at Leeds sometimes, although I always have a valid season ticket. The problem is that the magnetic strip in the ticket sometimes stops working when there's still several weeks validity on the damned thing.

That's a criminal offence. You should get the ticket replaced; any ticket office can do this although it is quickest to do it at the station where you bought the ticket or another booking office operated by the same company.

The gateline at Leeds is managed by Northern AFAIK.

 

[anme]

That's a criminal offence. You should get the ticket replaced; any ticket office can do this although it is quickest to do it at the station where you bought the ticket or another booking office operated by the same company.

Agree that it's anti-social and the OP should get their ticket replaced, but why is 'tailgating' a criminal offence in this case? I suppose it could be "failing to produce a valid ticket when requested", although as a valid ticket is held and would presumably be produced if the OP was challenged, it's very hard to see any further action being taken.

 

[island]

See section 9 (2) of the Railway Byelaws.

Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

Tailgating is not the correct manner of passing through a ticket gate.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's quite explicitly an offence against the byelaws:

9. (2) Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner.

the existence of a valid ticket would not be a defence as far as I can see.

 

[jopsuk]

If anyone gets that close behind me when I'm going through a barrier, I'll give 'em summat to think about...

Don't need to be particularly close on the wide gates.

 

[starrymarkb]

Yep it is an offence, but chances are on presentation of the valid ticket the staff would tell you not to do it again and to replace the ticket rather then going for the nuclear option.

 

[34D]

That's a criminal offence. You should get the ticket replaced; any ticket office can do this although it is quickest to do it at the station where you bought the ticket or another booking office operated by the same company.

The gateline at Leeds is managed by Northern AFAIK.

Indeed. And depending on the journey made/ticket held, from next week some tickets in West Yorkshire will be issued on ITSO smartcards - see http://www.m-card.co.uk

 

[Antman]

I know what you mean but surely it is lost revenue. ..?

South Eastern Trains have solved this problem by leaving the gates open at many of their stations

At busy stations you wouldn't even notice somebody 'tailgating' you, the trick is (and this 'cat' was let out of the bag on TV sometime ago) is to block the beam (thus keeping the gate open) with your left hand whilst having a wallet in your right hand which you put on the oyster reader, the chances of getting spotted are about the same as winning the lotto jackpot

 

[Liam]

Remember once my cross London ticket not working the gate at a Tube station, so the woman behind stuck in her ticket (don't think Oyster existed then) and pushed me through while she followed close behind.

 

[jon0844]

Remember once my cross London ticket not working the gate at a Tube station, so the woman behind stuck in her ticket (don't think Oyster existed then) and pushed me through while she followed close behind.

that happens quite lot, where someone in front doesn't have their ticket read properly - or their Oyster isn't read - and neither they or you notice. You then tap out, the gate opens and they go through on your ticket. Sometimes you make it, but often the older style gates will catch you or close on you (painful, but just push through). Even when the thing starts beeping, you're often ignored as I guess it's that common in rush hour.

Now of course, I suppose it's possible that the person in front would have an invalid ticket/Oyster and hope you'll push them through - but that would take rather good timing!

 

[johntea]

I had to do this once quite quickly because I got my Metrocard stuck in the ticket barrier, the next person put in their ticket which knocked out my Metrocard and were so in their own world they walked off with my Metrocard so I had to very quickly chase them down to retrieve it back!!!

 

[badger1badger]

I do this myself at Leeds sometimes, although I always have a valid season ticket. The problem is that the magnetic strip in the ticket sometimes stops working when there's still several weeks validity on the damned thing. You can try to find someone to let you through, but that can be a bit of a farce.

There are always at least 2 people on the gate line

1 on the entrance side to the platforms on the left hand near the wide isle and equally on the exit on the middle near the wide isle, they generally wear green tabards

There are at least two places to get tickets at most times to buy a ticket post travel

 

[wilsontown]

There are always at least 2 people on the gate line

Certainly there are usually two people on the gateline, but not always.