Double Back Question

[hairyhandedfool]

I think some people in this thread are confusing valid routes and doubling back in group stations.

Forgetting that Dalmeny is a member of Edinburgh Group, is it on a valid route between Newcastle and Glasgow? Yes, on map ER.

So you can break your journey there. However to return to Haymarket would surely mean we have to pass through South Gyle again, so is this valid?

Well, the group stations paragraph says we can double back within the group for connectional purposes only. We gained no advantage for our connection there as we are returning to Haymarket to go onward to Glasgow, a station we have already been through once, unless our first train did not stop at either Haymarket or South Gyle and there was no better connection at Edinburgh. I think that is unlikely and so, to my mind, we are not following a route allowed by the routeing guide.

 

[John @ home]

There are permitted routes Newcastle - Dalmeny - Glasgow Queen Street which do not involve any doubling back. Therefore a passenger with a Newcastle - Glasgow route Any Permitted ticket is entitled to travel by one of those routes. If the ticket is a type valid for break of that leg of the journey, this passenger is also entitled to break their journey at Dalmeny.

If the passenger resumes from Dalmeny after the break at a weekend or after 0742 on a weekday, there is no (further) service that day by any of the routes which avoid doubling back. This lack of train service is caused by the railway industry, not by the passenger. In the absence of a train service by any of the routes which avoid doubling back, the passenger is entitled to make use of the Group Stations rule in the National Routeing Guide to complete their journey.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

There are permitted routes Newcastle - Dalmeny - Glasgow Queen Street which do not involve any doubling back. Therefore a passenger with a Newcastle - Glasgow route Any Permitted ticket is entitled to travel by one of those routes. If the ticket is a type valid for break of that leg of the journey, this passenger is also entitled to break their journey at Dalmeny.

If the passenger resumes from Dalmeny after the break at a weekend or after 0742 on a weekday, there is no (further) service that day by any of the routes which avoid doubling back. This lack of train service is caused by the railway industry, not by the passenger. In the absence of a train service by any of the routes which avoid doubling back, the passenger is entitled to make use of the Group Stations rule in the National Routeing Guide to complete their journey.

Hmmmm..... I see how you are using the rule, I hadn't looked at it quite like that, although I'm not familiar with the timetabling there (which is probably why I didn't consider it). I'm not entirely sure it was intended for use that way though, but I guess I can't argue with it either.

 

[b0b]

Resurrecting this thread again,

the consensus is:

Once you leave a group, you may not double back through a station in that group?

So on a mapped route, when travel is between 2 groups, you could make multiple trips between the groups but that is limited by the number of distinct routes that do not pass through the same station inside either group or between the groups.

so this would be valid

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> F -> G

where B&F are part of one group, and D&E are part of the other group and C & D are intermediate stations.. but you could not do

A -> B -> C -> D -> E -> B -> G as you are returning to B after leaving the group.

The Dalmeny example is an interesting diversion [sic].