Doors not released for nearly 40 minutes at Clapham Junction

[a_c_skinner]

All of which is correct and shows why the only safe thing to do in this case was to evacuate in a controlled way rather than risk intemperate action by passengers. I'd probably have rung BTP and said it was all getting a bit shirty and I feared for safety.

 

[Val3ntine]

I really don't believe that thinking 40 minutes is excessive is a slippery slope to anarchy on the railways.

Where does it stop? In this case, at a platform at a station with signs saying it's Britain's busiest railway station, with large numbers of station and platform staff. The failure is to not have done anything to help the passengers for so long. Like others, I'm very surprised passengers didn't self evacuate.

True. Im surprised myself if im honest with you. But at the end of the day 300+ people decided not to egress, is it really right to say well one of them should have?
40 minutes delay to one train load of people avoided being countless delays to hundreds of other trains (potentially). Not a great result I admit the railway could and should have done better. But it could have been worse if out of that 300+ people just 1 decided to egress.

 

[reddragon]

Again, I ask that posters consider some of the challenges in organising an evacuation. People can not simply be conjured out of the air. There aren't groups of people sat about waiting form the call. They are spread out doing their actual jobs. It takes time to get them to site etc. Are you and others prepared to acknowledge that?
.

There is where the problem sits "People can not simply be conjured out of the air."

The railway is a heavily staffed organisation often with many people nearby, but fragmentation stops things happening.

Maybe a service like retained firefighters or RNLI volunteers where a call goes out and people respond if nearby via a managed system. This could included Contractors, NR staff and train operational staff.

 

[mmh]

All of which is correct and shows why the only safe thing to do in this case was to evacuate in a controlled way rather than risk intemperate action by passengers. I'd probably have rung BTP and said it was all getting a bit shirty and I feared for safety.

If you're suggesting that as a way of not potentially "mis-using" the emergency door release and somehow therefore being more rule abiding, I wouldn't recommend it - wasting police time is potentially a far more serious offence than misuse of a door handle.

There's nothing unsafe about using a door release at a platform, leaving the train is then exactly the same as if the door had been opened ordinarily.

 

[DarloRich]

There is where the problem sits "People can not simply be conjured out of the air."

The railway is a heavily staffed organisation often with many people nearby, but fragmentation stops things happening.

Maybe a service like retained firefighters or RNLI volunteers where a call goes out and people respond if nearby via a managed system. This could included Contractors, NR staff and train operational staff.

an interesting idea. I suspect the issues would be control, access to the track and competency management . It isnt simply a case of all rushing down to the train and getting people off. What takes the time ( once you have some people) is working out how to get all the passengers safely off the railway as quickly as possible. Walking distances on the ballast in civvie shoes is not fun.

 

[Muttley]

Which it does by serving passengers. Most businesses don't last long if they operate with utter disregard for their customers.

Mind you, Northern and GTR adequately prove otherwise, I suppose...

Sorry fella, but you're not the customer !

 

[a_c_skinner]

As things would have got shirty by then it wouldn't be wasting police time. The point is that leaving passengers locked in and stationary on their platform for 40 minutes isn't acceptable. You never know what they will do. It just isn't good enough. The reasons are immaterial. It isn't good enough. Rescue times seem often unacceptable, and it just isn't good enough. Fifty years ago we had Americans on the moon and we cannot get people off failed trains at or near stations in good weather.

 

[Llanigraham]

There is where the problem sits "People can not simply be conjured out of the air."

The railway is a heavily staffed organisation often with many people nearby, but fragmentation stops things happening.

Maybe a service like retained firefighters or RNLI volunteers where a call goes out and people respond if nearby via a managed system. This could included Contractors, NR staff and train operational staff.

Is it?
It might be in certain areas, like the big cities, but I can assure you that once you get out of those urban areas that is certainly NOT the case. I know from my own experience that trying to get NR staff to a fault at Ludlow could easily take over an hour.

And as for a "retained team", you have to be joking!!?? For a start where are you going to find enough volunteers to do this, who is going to train them, and ensure that their training is both current and up-to-date, and if they are contractors, who pays, because they won't do it for nothing.

 

[ComUtoR]

While if the interlock has failed, they will be evacuating anyway as passengers cannot be carried on a train without door interlock.

Who said they can't ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who said they can't ?

AIUI, it's a rule at at least some TOCs that passengers may not be carried on a train with a failed door interlock, and that the train must be terminated at the next calling point if this occurs.

 

[ComUtoR]

AIUI, it's a rule at at least some TOCs

Its not a rule book instruction so yeah, local instructions apply.

The procedure for when it happens would cause huge delays and be very impractical. So its about cost.....

 

[swj99]

...............I am amazed that no-one triggered the door release.

Same here.

I don't think I'd fancy being stuck on a train that wasn't going anywhere for that long. However, in a situation like that, my decision on whether or not to walk away and make alternative travel arrangements would depend on where I was going, time constraints, time of day, availability of taxis, distance to destination etc.

Yes, definitely. If a train suffers a fault, no matter how minor, the driver must immediately leave the cab, walk through the train and apologise to each individual passenger. He must serve complementary snacks and drinks. ..........

I agree. Can I have a coffee with 3 sugars, a veggie pastie and an ashtray please.