Doors failed to open

[muchado]

Hi, hope this is the right place to ask- I was on a Northern train last night, all on time, but when the train reached my station, the door wouldn’t open. The ‘open doors’ light just never came on. I ran to the other end of the carriage and tried the other door but that was the same and by that time the train set off. I had to alight at the next station which caused massive inconvenience for me and my friends and family. Train was quite quiet, and I’d noticed passengers leave the train at previous stops, but this was on the opposite side of the train,( if relevant ) and at the next stop after mine, there were 3 of us leaving train, panicking, as the ‘open doors’ light only came on at the last second. Is it worth pursuing this with Northern, and if so, what things would I need to focus on? I’d been ticket checked on the journey, but couldn’t locate anyone when I was trapped in the train, if that helps. Oh, and I was in the second carriage with no announcement of ‘only alight from selected carriages’. I’m female, travelling alone, and it was quite a frightening experience. Thank you.

 

[island]

Sorry to hear about your experience. I hope you're all right. You can send feedback via the Northern website and it will hopefully be routed to the conductor of the train in question and their manager, although for data protection reasons, you won't receive feedback on what actions if any are taken with respect to the conductor. It's possible that the door in question was defective.

 

[WesternLancer]

Probably would help if you could detail journey, time of train, station stop concerned.

Eg I was on the 22.30 train from A to X

How did you get back to the station you wanted to get off at and did you incur any costs in doing so in which case you maybe able to request repayment from Nirthern

Did you try to find the guard afterwards or mention it to them when you got off at the next station? If you did did they offer any help or advice?

I’d have panicked too I expect but if I’d thought of it I think I’d maybe have pressed the emergency button although in the heat of the moment it would be easy not to think to do that.

 

[AlterEgo]

It would also help if you disclosed which train this was, and which station you wanted to alight at on here - we can check if the train was indeed booked to call.

 

[WesternLancer]

It would also help if you disclosed which train this was, and which station you wanted to alight at on here - we can check if the train was indeed booked to call.

FWIW could also identify the individual train carriages involved off real time trains easily I expect.

I assume this could be a technical fault or possibly a conductor error if not done door release properly or for long enough? Not accusing anyone of that but assuming it can happen. I’m thinking technical fault may be more likely.

 

[muchado]

Hi, it was the 21.03 from Salford crescent to Wigan wallgate, I was leaving at Daisy Hill, but had to alight at Hindley. I was in a panic and for some reason it seemed particularly dark there. I did try to get a taxi, but in the end I rang a friend to come get me, they’d to get out to bed to get me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Probably would help if you could detail journey, time of train, station stop concerned.

Eg I was on the 22.30 train from A to X

How did you get back to the station you wanted to get off at and did you incur any costs in doing so in which case you maybe able to request repayment from Nirthern

Did you try to find the guard afterwards or mention it to them when you got off at the next station? If you did did they offer any help or advice?

I’d have panicked too I expect but if I’d thought of it I think I’d maybe have pressed the emergency button although in the heat of the moment it would be easy not to think to do that.

Would that be an acceptable reason to use the emergency? That good to know actually. I didn’t think of it, but I have an idea that it’s only for life threatening situations, possibly garnered from seeing it in films though.

 

[Watershed]

I would suggest submitting a complaint to Northern and asking for an amount equal to the Delay Repay you'd get for a 15-29 minute delay, in view of the delay and inconvenience you incurred. This would be on the basis that, after arriving at Hindley at 21:32, you could have taken the 21:51 train back to Daisy Hill which would have resulted in arriving there at 21:55, 28 minutes late.

You could submit a Subject Access Request to Northern for CCTV footage, as evidence of your attempt to leave the train.

 

[muchado]

FWIW could also identify the individual train carriages involved off real time trains easily I expect.

I assume this could be a technical fault or possibly a conductor error if not done door release properly or for long enough? Not accusing anyone of that but assuming it can happen. I’m thinking technical fault may be more likely.

I was thinking technical fault too, and I should let them know either way. They need to be aware, so that it can be rectified/ guards be around to open doors manually. I do feel they should recompense me in some way, just not sure which part to focus on.

 

[WesternLancer]

I would suggest submitting a complaint to Northern and asking for an amount equal to the Delay Repay you'd get for a 15-29 minute delay, in view of the delay and inconvenience you incurred. This would be on the basis that, after arriving at Hindley at 21:32, you could have taken the 21:51 train back to Daisy Hill which would have resulted in arriving there at 21:55, 28 minutes late.

You could submit a Subject Access Request to Northern for CCTV footage, as evidence of your attempt to leave the train.

Would only be a good plan if you knew the doors of that train would open
Lols.

You could spend days going backwards and forwards until you got lucky

Edit unsure why my smileys are not showing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Would that be an acceptable reason to use the emergency? That good to know actually. I didn’t think of it, but I have an idea that it’s only for life threatening situations, possibly garnered from seeing it in films though.

It sounds like you take a responsibie attitude to such a thing. I suspect it’s a grey area on whether it’s appropriate or not but I’d hope staff show discretion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

I would suggest submitting a complaint to Northern and asking for an amount equal to the Delay Repay you'd get for a 15-29 minute delay, in view of the delay and inconvenience you incurred. This would be on the basis that, after arriving at Hindley at 21:32, you could have taken the 21:51 train back to Daisy Hill which would have resulted in arriving there at 21:55, 28 minutes late.

You could submit a Subject Access Request to Northern for CCTV footage, as evidence of your attempt to leave the train.

This is good advice though won’t of course generate much compensation but would be in line at least with a clear railway compensation policy.

Others in the group should all do the same too

 

[thejuggler]

Sounds crazy, but I have seen it myself. Were you on the correct side of the train for alighting?

 

[WesternLancer]

It would also help if you disclosed which train this was, and which station you wanted to alight at on here - we can check if the train was indeed booked to call.

Booked to stop at daisy hill for 30 seconds. Did stop for 30 seconds but looks like it left 15 seconds early which won’t have helped in the circs.

Looks like a 4 carriage train of two 158 class trains. Units 158908 and 158904.

Not sure how much this helps.

 

[AlterEgo]

I was thinking technical fault too, and I should let them know either way. They need to be aware, so that it can be rectified/ guards be around to open doors manually. I do feel they should recompense me in some way, just not sure which part to focus on.

I think your claim for compensation will be limited to a quarter of the fare paid, for the reasons @Watershed gives. However, Northern may decide to do something else as a gesture of goodwill in the circumstances.

 

[skyhigh]

What I have seen before (particularly on 158s) is the guard be a little slow to open up. The passenger waiting the door panics, walks through the saloon to the door on the other end of the coach - and while in the coach the guard releases and then shuts the doors again before the passenger reaches the next vestibule.

If you say at the next stop 'the door button only lit up at the last moment' it adds weight to the slow door operation theory.

If that's what happened I would be of the opinion that you'd still be entitled to delay repay but technical faults of this nature are very uncommon on 158s.

 

[island]

Edit unsure why my smileys are not showing.

The forum only supports its own smileys from the edit panel, not general ones.

 

[muchado]

Sounds crazy, but I have seen it myself. Were you on the correct side of the train for alighting?

I was yes, it’s a train I’ve been using a couple of times a week for the past few years, so I definitely was, yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

What I have seen before (particularly on 158s) is the guard be a little slow to open up. The passenger waiting the door panics, walks through the saloon to the door on the other end of the coach - and while in the coach the guard releases and then shuts the doors again before the passenger reaches the next vestibule.

If you say at the next stop 'the door button only lit up at the last moment' it adds weight to the slow door operation theory.

If that's what happened I would be of the opinion that you'd still be entitled to delay repay but technical faults of this nature are very uncommon on 158s.

Well, it’s good to know it’s uncommon, at least. It was quite surreal. The carriage was almost empty, and I suppose that the girl who had been seated in front and facing me had seen this unfold, yet inexplicably had her legs stretched across the gangway. I bravely hurdled over them in my dash to the other door. I don’t think I was ever that good at any sport day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Booked to stop at daisy hill for 30 seconds. Did stop for 30 seconds but looks like it left 15 seconds early which won’t have helped in the circs.

Looks like a 4 carriage train of two 158 class trains. Units 158908 and 158904.

Not sure how much this helps.

It does help, thank you. I found it a bit traumatic, and understanding the fuller picture is helping me make sense of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

I think your claim for compensation will be limited to a quarter of the fare paid, for the reasons @Watershed gives. However, Northern may decide to do something else as a gesture of goodwill in the circumstances.

Thank you, as you’ve said, I’d at least have that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

I would suggest submitting a complaint to Northern and asking for an amount equal to the Delay Repay you'd get for a 15-29 minute delay, in view of the delay and inconvenience you incurred. This would be on the basis that, after arriving at Hindley at 21:32, you could have taken the 21:51 train back to Daisy Hill which would have resulted in arriving there at 21:55, 28 minutes late.

You could submit a Subject Access Request to Northern for CCTV footage, as evidence of your attempt to leave the train.

Thank you, I will do that, that’s a good help. At least I’ll get something. I feel I’ll be watching that the door I’ll be leaving by is working ok for the foreseeable now.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was yes, it’s a train I’ve been using a couple of times a week for the past few years, so I definitely was, yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==


Well, it’s good to know it’s uncommon, at least. It was quite surreal. The carriage was almost empty, and I suppose that the girl who had been seated in front and facing me had seen this unfold, yet inexplicably had her legs stretched across the gangway. I bravely hurdled over them in my dash to the other door. I don’t think I was ever that good at any sport day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==


It does help, thank you. I found it a bit traumatic, and understanding the fuller picture is helping me make sense of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==


Thank you, as you’ve said, I’d at least have that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==


Thank you, I will do that, that’s a good help. At least I’ll get something. I feel I’ll be watching that the door I’ll be leaving by is working ok for the foreseeable now.

I think you’ll have to pursue it via customer services rather than the delay repay process and it’s rather automated website, so that you can set out the context.

End your complaint with a clear ask eg’ I would be grateful if you could compensate me and my travelling companions for the inconvenience caused and they resulting delay in reaching our destination ‘

 

[Nottingham59]

I’m thinking technical fault may be more likely.

Most of the previous stations on that line (Atherton Walkden Moorside etc.) have a central island platform like Daisy Hill. So passengers alighting at those stations are likely to have had the same problem, if it had been an ongoing technical issue.

 

[najaB]

Hi, hope this is the right place to ask- I was on a Northern train last night, all on time, but when the train reached my station, the door wouldn’t open. The ‘open doors’ light just never came on. I ran to the other end of the carriage and tried the other door but that was the same and by that time the train set off.

Just to double-check, are any of the trains which call at that station longer than the platform, so that it was local-door operation? As a local example, if a 170 or 158 calls at Broughty Ferry then all doors are released, however if a HST or a 170+158 combo calls then it's local door only.

 

[185]

Looks like it was 2x158 WY metro sets on that. So quite sure there's no ASDO for short platforms, iirc which could effectively lock a door out. In terms of door procedure, it used to be a very quick, extremely reliable train on the Calder Valley until those silly bells and whistles were added some years back.

RTT is a bit of a red herring - sometimes "30 seconds" dwell time can be up to 44 seconds depending on the quadrant of the minute the train stops.
eg 11:10:16s = becomes 1110¼ whilst 11:10:59s = 1110¾

...thus - 44 seconds shows as only 30 seconds. Was used in a disciplinary investigation some years ago, and it was agreed that in future managers would not use RTT to investigate, only the data recorder or CCTV will confirm how long the doors were enabled for.

 

[muchado]

Just to double-check, are any of the trains which call at that station longer than the platform, so that it was local-door operation? As a local example, if a 170 or 158 calls at Broughty Ferry then all doors are released, however if a HST or a 170+158 combo calls then it's local door only.

No, I’ve never known one. I have been on trains like that to other places, and they seem to repeat the info several times to make sure no one is in any doubt, but no.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2024 ==

Most of the previous stations on that line (Atherton Walkden Moorside etc.) have a central island platform like Daisy Hill. So passengers alighting at those stations are likely to have had the same problem, if it had been an ongoing technical issue.

I was thinking this myself. I remember a bunch of people alighted the train in walkden, but I didn’t see anyone else leave the train. There’s atherton and Hag fold inbetween. For some reason I thought the passengers leaving at wkd had left the train from the opposite side, but thinking now, they couldn’t have.. they were a big group of friends so possibly all wanting to stand together. So the door must’ve worked then? Actually this was moments after the ticket check, if that is relevant.

 

[30907]

I was thinking this myself. I remember a bunch of people alighted the train in walkden, but I didn’t see anyone else leave the train. There’s atherton and Hag fold inbetween. For some reason I thought the passengers leaving at wkd had left the train from the opposite side, but thinking now, they couldn’t have.. they were a big group of friends so possibly all wanting to stand together. So the door must’ve worked then?

Hag Fold (newer than the rest) is the odd-one-out with "outside" platforms.

 

[crosscity]

I think not being able to get off a train at the station you want to is quite serious. It happened to a relative on his first day at a new job. It was in the morning at a small station and he was overcarried to the next station a couple of miles away. This was with Cross Country trains.

I contacted their customer services and had an email conversation over a few weeks. They took it very seriously and said they'd investigated with their engineering department to find out if there'd been similar instances with the same unit. They reported that they could find nothing untoward, but did pay his taxi fare (in rail vouchers) from the station he got off at to his place of work. I thought that was a reasonable outcome.

 

[toffeedanish]

If the OP or anyone else reading is particularly concerned about this issue happening to them then they could sit within sight of the guard, or within sight of the rear cab from which the guard usually appears. Boarding near the rear or from where the guard dispatches the train if you can see them will aid with this (and will ensure you are in the same half of the train as the guard where two 195 units, for example, are coupled without corridor connection).

 

[James H]

We had a similar incident on Southern last year when doors weren't released at Lewes and we were overcarried to Brighton. The generic customer services responses from GTR didn't even acknowledge they had understood the issue, but the vouchers they eventually sent did soften the blow.