Door system fault?

[Bookd]

En route to Waterloo this morning (SWT) we were stopped, only for a couple of minutes, outside Clapham Junction and a recorded announcement said this was due to a problem with the doors and no-one should use the emergency exit procedures (or words to that effect)
I have heard the same announcement when stopped outside Waterloo awaiting a platform - is it likely that there is really a door problem, or is it just a generic announcement triggered to save the trouble of making a manual announcement regarding the delay?

 

[Domh245]

Might just be a guard entering the wrong code for the automatic announcements?

 

[E_Reeves]

Deleted

 

[MartinB1]

This is to do with the Automatic Selective Door Opening system for short platforms. The train once it has stopped doesn't understand why it hasn't read any beacons (which are found in the track at stations) , instructing it to open a set number of doors. If this fault were to occur at a station this automated announcement gives the driver and guard time to decide if they can can override this to enable them to open all the doors.

 

[TEW]

The announcement only places if there is an active Door Key Switch somewhere on the train. Typically this would only happen if the guard was working the train from the cab and had left their key on. The design means it's not possible to leave a key on at a saloon panel. There is now an instruction not to leave a DKS on between stations to prevent the announcement playing spuriously.

 

[BestWestern]

The announcement only places if there is an active Door Key Switch somewhere on the train. Typically this would only happen if the guard was working the train from the cab and had left their key on. The design means it's not possible to leave a key on at a saloon panel. There is now an instruction not to leave a DKS on between stations to prevent the announcement playing spuriously.

A DKS shouldn't be live between stops anyway! Your comment suggests it's a regular thing at SWT, which would be very sloppy operation!?

 

[headshot119]

A DKS shouldn't be live between stops anyway! Your comment suggests it's a regular thing at SWT, which would be very sloppy operation!?

It's certainly not unheard of for a DKS to be left on between stations. I can certainly name a couple of places it's a regular occurrence. (Not that I don't agree it's sloppy!)

 

[Mike11]

It means the train has gone into default mode (safety mode). It can depend on the stock but on a 444 only the front 3 coaches will open as 3 coaches would fit on every station on our network. The announcement is automated due to default.

 

[TheManBehind]

A DKS shouldn't be live between stops anyway! Your comment suggests it's a regular thing at SWT, which would be very sloppy operation!?

Desiros automatically switch off the DKS at above 3mph, so it was common on busy trains for guards to just leave the key in and switched to "on", knowing the doors couldn't be released anyway - particularly on rounder services with stops every 2 minutes.

Rare for cab-worked 455s to have the DKS turned off between stops for the same reason, but the door controls were in a vestibule for the cab so away from accidental finger-slips!

 

[Monty]

A DKS shouldn't be live between stops anyway! Your comment suggests it's a regular thing at SWT, which would be very sloppy operation!?

I have to confess I've not been told otherwise, when I used to work 455 stock I would almost never switch off the DKS between stations (or on a 450 when working from a cab).

 

[the sniper]

A DKS shouldn't be live between stops anyway! Your comment suggests it's a regular thing at SWT, which would be very sloppy operation!?

I guess this is based on experience particular to stock you work? I can only agree with the last few posts, leaving the DKS on between stops is absolutely the norm where I am unless you're moving to another local door/cab.

I'm now thinking you're never hanging around in one part of the train for too long, thus why you'd have to always key out or risk forgetting or getting too far away from where you were keyed in? If so, you're obviously just working harder than the rest of us...

 

[BestWestern]

I guess this is based on experience particular to stock you work? I can only agree with the last few posts, leaving the DKS on between stops is absolutely the norm where I am unless you're moving to another local door/cab.

I'm now thinking you're never hanging around in one part of the train for too long, thus why you'd have to always key out or risk forgetting or getting too far away from where you were keyed in? If so, you're obviously just working harder than the rest of us...

Obviously!

Some TOCs are more safety orientated than others, so perhaps it's merely a procedural matter that is less highly regarded in some places than in others! Certainly I would expect a competence manager to view leaving it on as an issue though. It depends also on stock I suppose, working a Class 158/153/150 where the panels are in public areas is a clear issue, even if the panels (in theory!) are locked. I'd certainly be nervous leaving the buttons live!

 

[TEW]

When I was trained on 455s and 456s we were never told to turn the DKS to off between stations. The buttons are all in a non public area, so it's just a case of trusting yourself not to touch them. Obviously it's different when you're moving around the train, you'd turn the DKS off then. AFAIK however if using the panels in the saloons on 455s and 456s you have to have the DKS on to make a PA announcement or make a cab to cab call, which means turning the DKS on between stations. I've never tried to use the PA without the DKS, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work. The equipment in the cabs always works of course.

 

[40129]

In my experience, the practice of having the DKS on between stations depends on the type of rolling stock and the likelihood of the guard working the doors from somewhere other then the back cab. As others have said, if the train only has saloon fitted DKS e.g cl-153 then it should only be on for station duties. Not only does this prevent miscreants pressing the buttons but also prevents the guard trying to turn a 2nd DKS on = I have heard of drivers mistaking the alarm for a stop command. However, where the guard is not leaving the cab between station stops, there is often little point in turning the DKS off - except when it causes the hazard light to flash when the train is stationery. Indeed, when I was first passing out , my manager encouraged me to leave the DKS on on cl-323s once I had demonstrated that I knew how to use it and so long as I was not leaving the cab

 

[theironroad]

It means the train has gone into default mode (safety mode). It can depend on the stock but on a 444 only the front 3 coaches will open as 3 coaches would fit on every station on our network. The announcement is automated due to default.

That is a different announcement to the one the op is talking about. If the train goes into default mode then the driver needs to override asdo after consultation with the guard and then notify Wicc.

The announcement the op talks about is related to dks afaik.

It's seems most common on 10 car 444 at Waterloo when only front 9 coaches release on arrival. The country end coach doors remain unusable until the train leaves the station and pass over a new beacon or cancel out.

However, when the driver puts a master key on at country end to leave waterloo, the auto announcement starts about standing clear etc etc, but the asdo fault won't clear until as described above. The driver can stop the announcement by pressing pa button. It's a known fault and really should have been sorted by now as on busy 10 car trains the front coach's two doors are not available for use to board.

 

[trainmania100]

A door problem? I didn't think the 707s had entered service yet
Sounds like some sort of Gps issue where it thinks your in the station but hasn't detected that the door have been opened, so it tells you there's a problem when actually there isnt

 

[BestWestern]

A door problem? I didn't think the 707s had entered service yet
Sounds like some sort of Gps issue where it thinks your in the station but hasn't detected that the door have been opened, so it tells you there's a problem when actually there isnt

This is on Desiro stock...

 

[TEW]

That is a different announcement to the one the op is talking about. If the train goes into default mode then the driver needs to override asdo after consultation with the guard and then notify Wicc.

The announcement the op talks about is related to dks afaik.

It's seems most common on 10 car 444 at Waterloo when only front 9 coaches release on arrival. The country end coach doors remain unusable until the train leaves the station and pass over a new beacon or cancel out.

However, when the driver puts a master key on at country end to leave waterloo, the auto announcement starts about standing clear etc etc, but the asdo fault won't clear until as described above. The driver can stop the announcement by pressing pa button. It's a known fault and really should have been sorted by now as on busy 10 car trains the front coach's two doors are not available for use to board.

The announcement is related to default mode. If a DKS is switched on when the train comes to a stop at a signal between stations the ASDO will be in default mode because there's no ASDO beacons to read at signals! If you did release the doors at a signal rather than a platform, they would open in default mode. (Front 3 on a 44, front 4 on a 450.)

 

[swt_passenger]

A door problem? I didn't think the 707s had entered service yet
Sounds like some sort of Gps issue where it thinks your in the station but hasn't detected that the door have been opened, so it tells you there's a problem when actually there isnt

Not so, the explanation is in posts #4 and #5. The train system thinks the guard has activated the doors, with the key switch, but it hasn't read a track balise, so it defaults to the minimum number of coaches that can be opened. Effectively the ASDO is doing exactly what it would do if a balise was missing on entry into a platform. The system used on SWT Desiros and 458/5s (Tracklink 3) does not use GPS anyway.

 

[Deepgreen]

Obviously!

Some TOCs are more safety orientated than others, so perhaps it's merely a procedural matter that is less highly regarded in some places than in others! Certainly I would expect a competence manager to view leaving it on as an issue though. It depends also on stock I suppose, working a Class 158/153/150 where the panels are in public areas is a clear issue, even if the panels (in theory!) are locked. I'd certainly be nervous leaving the buttons live!

Really? How does that square with Safety Cases being approved? Are there significant disparities between TOCs for these? I would hope not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A door problem? I didn't think the 707s had entered service yet
Sounds like some sort of Gps issue where it thinks your in the station but hasn't detected that the door have been opened, so it tells you there's a problem when actually there isnt

I don't think anyone has mentioned 707s - they haven't even been delivered yet, let alone entered service!

 

[trainmania100]

Really? How does that square with Safety Cases being approved? Are there significant disparities between TOCs for these? I would hope not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I don't think anyone has mentioned 707s - they haven't even been delivered yet, let alone entered service!

The 700s have entered service and the doors are always not working
It was a joke :-P But obviously not a very good one lol

 

[Bookd]

Lots of interesting answers - I am pleased the I asked. If this is indeed a technical issue it needs to be fixed; when on the train the implication is that you could be stranded for ages whilst a door fault is fixed, when really it is a brief signal stop.

 

[tsr]

If my train was really delayed by a door fault whilst it was between stations, that usually has potential to make me a bit worried...

(And I speak from experience - having dealt with situations like that one where I was going over a viaduct at 70mph and the train told me that 8 doors had opened... )