Don't people look or listen ??

[ainsworth74]

GNER kept this tradition up, the closest you get now is units with screens by the doors telling you the next stop/final stop (Voyagers/ Pendolini).

Not just GNER, NXEC and EC both continue to put paper displays on all the carriage doors of their trains. Quite handy they can be as well on occasion.

 

[SS4]

You could be listening like a hawk for an announcement but it's very likely that some idiot next to you is shouting into their mobile phone or blasting out crap rap music (I know good metal music when I hear it and it's only ever happened once!) or those who think they have to shout to people less than 25cm away from them.

In short audio announcements cannot be relied upon thanks to the rude behaviour of other passengers. Visual displays are usually very good yet it's too impractical to have them all the way down, on the platforms New St is appalling for visual displays, they are only usually at the entrance to the platform which is going to get the most congested.

 

[tbtc]

Not just GNER, NXEC and EC both continue to put paper displays on all the carriage doors of their trains. Quite handy they can be as well on occasion.

Cheers (I tend to use XC for direct services to Scotland these days, so have to confess to being ignorant of this tradition being maintained, glad to see though)

 

[telstarbox]

And this merits a thread of it's own...? Come on, it's hardly the surprise of the century.

Quite simply, people are stupid. Either they fail to absorb the information available to them because they don't read the screens or hear the announcements, or they refuse the believe that the information they are getting is correct. And this happens with boring regularity. Almost every departure will generate at least half a dozen enquiries that could so easily be avoided, and often times many many more.

O L Leigh

There are plenty of situations where, despite the presence of announcements/departure boards, passengers might want to double check- such as:

- Stations where there can be two trains on the same platform and the rear train isn't always locked out of use (e.g. MAN);
- Stations where a platform can be used as one long platform or two short ones within a few minutes (e.g. SHF platform 2 and 5);
- Making sure you are on the correct train for your £10 advance ticket so you don't end up having to buy a £70 one as well (any IC service);

and so on.

 

[Skimble19]

Not just GNER, NXEC and EC both continue to put paper displays on all the carriage doors of their trains. Quite handy they can be as well on occasion.

Indeed - there's usually plenty of used ones hanging around on eBay

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed - there's usually plenty of used ones hanging around on eBay

Surely it would be easier (and cheaper) to just pinch one from the train?

But being serious now who on earth would buy these? Actual display blinds from trains I can understand but these are just a sheet of A4 paper!

 

[WestCoast]

As an alternative, does anyone know if it'd be possible to play "tannoy" annoucements specific to each coach? That may make things easier (especially on services which will "split" or have a buffet car - no point in saying its "to the rear of the train" if people don't know how far along the train they are sitting).

Yes, Southern have a system somewhat like that.

The system says "you are in coach number X of X". Then announces which coaches are going where and what coaches you should be in at short platform stations. Yet, I've heard enthusiasts complaining that they "don't need to know which coach they are in", it's VERY useful on splitting services and at short platforms.

Have you ever been on a TPE service that divides? The system always says "this part of the train is for X" and constantly repeats where the train will divide.

The important thing with annoucements is QUALITY not QUANTITY, keep the announcements limited (on local/regional services at least) to where the train is going, if it divides and where it is calling at. Intercity trains need to talk about luggage and buffets.

 

[Skimble19]

Surely it would be easier (and cheaper) to just pinch one from the train?

But being serious now who on earth would buy these? Actual display blinds from trains I can understand but these are just a sheet of A4 paper!

You'd have thought so! As long as you did it at the end of the working of course

As for who buys them.. no idea, but somebody must! Even more hilariously, used ticket reservations end up on there too

 

[WestCoast]

First Great Western also have routeing information slips on their HSTs.

 

[island]

Brizzle Temple Meads.
"Where do I get the Westbury train from?"
"Now, where are you going to?"

That may occasionally be a good question, in case the passenger is going somewhere that would involve the Westbury train but there is a better way for them to get there.

 

[The_Stig]

Happens quite regularly on the Balloch express at Partick. People just jump on and despite the driver coming on the PA or replaying the PIS message that Dumbarton central is the next stop someone always gets caught.

They then start to blame everyone else but themselves for it.

 

[AlexS]

There are other reasons why this sort of thing happens.

Not so long back I tried to catch a CC service from New Street to Derby (so the Nottingham/Stansted service). One screen said the train at platform X was the one I needed, another said that the train at platform X was for somewhere further south (still a CC train though).

Being diligent, I asked a member of the train crew, who assured me that it was the Nottingham train. As we pull away, however,

"This is the XXXX train to #somewhere other than Nottingham#".

That happens all the time - I believe there's/was an evening peak diagram that has a 4 car 170 arrive at New Street from Leicester and divide to form a Nottingham and a Stansted train. Quite often the seat reservations for the train are in the wrong portion so you get on the Nottingham portion and find it full of seat reservations for Stansted - but it actually is the Nottingham train. Or it isn't and because of a cockup the Nottingham coaches are now trapped behind the Stansted, so you assume the ones at the front are the earlier train for Nottingham only to find as you go the wrong way at Water Orton that they're not. Very irritating, having been caught out by this once or twice. Luckily as I've generally been going to Loughborough ending up in Derby or Leicester isn't a problem but numerous people seem to get carried off to the wrong place, particularly as they're both extremely busy trains anyway.

 

[button_boxer]

- Stations where a platform can be used as one long platform or two short ones within a few minutes (e.g. SHF platform 2 and 5);

The number of times I've been waiting on platform 6 at Sheffield and seen confused people wandering around trying to find platform 6A... Or vice versa - "ok, this is platform 5B, that's 5A, so where's platform 5?".

 

[Anonywave]

As an alternative, does anyone know if it'd be possible to play "tannoy" annoucements specific to each coach? That may make things easier (especially on services which will "split" or have a buffet car - no point in saying its "to the rear of the train" if people don't know how far along the train they are sitting).

I agree, the only confusion I have hade with splitting services is confusion over which coach I am in.

 

[WestCoast]

I agree, the only confusion I have hade with splitting services is the coach that I am in.

What TOC was this on?

 

[Anonywave]

I'm not entirely sure but I think it was a Southeastern service. I have never ended up on the wrong coaches after it has split though.

 

[WestCoast]

I'm not entirely sure but I think it was a Southeastern service. I have never ended up on the wrong coaches after it has split though.

Ah, I see. Well certain TOCs have auto-annoucements that state "This part of the train" or "This is coach number X of X". I don't think Southeastern have those.

 

[telstarbox]

They do on the Electrostars, as do Southern.

 

[trainophile]

Although I agree in principle with the notion that people don't pay attention, the announcements about units and their destinations can sometimes assume too much knowledge on the part of the passenger.

On one station, for example, the announcer said that the train at the South end of the platform was for X and the train at the North end for somewhere else - but not all of us know our North from our South, especially on stations where the alignment is not obvious.

Passengers do not always know whether they are in the front or the rear set - they might not even know how to recognise where a set starts and finishes. What's the difference between a 'carriage', a 'set', a 'unit', a 'portion', or a 'train'? Rail-knowledgeable people go by the position of cabs and set numbers and know things like the fact that 185s are 3-car sets, but most passengers won't know it. On the three car 158s there is a cab in the centre car just to confuse matters further.

Arriving at Shrewsbury from Birmingham there is usually a very thorough announcement about the Aberystwyth train splitting at Machynlleth but it gets very confusing because the conductor has to make the announcement before the train has reversed and so the front unit becomes the rear unit and vice versa.

Sometimes the announcements are too quiet as well. Some conductors give a good clear message but on many an occasion the announcement is only very slightly louder than the ambient noise. It can be hard to tell that there is an announcement, let alone hear it clearly enough to understand it and take action. I think also that there are many folk who think that the announcement 'won't be for me'!

I reckon the only way to solve the problem is to have someone physically walk down the train before a split takes place and tell people that their bit of the train is for 'X'. That would work for short units like 158s but I don't know how sensible it would be in 8 car sets.

Apart from the opening sentence (I speak as an over-cautious to the point of obsessive attention-payer) this post sums up exactly how your average passenger often feels, when trying to establish where they should be waiting or boarding.

Please cut us some slack, we don't do this for a living you know. Typical example - Chester recently for some reason at least twice to my knowledge showed Platform 1 for the 11.35 Euston service, which was actually in and waiting on Platform 3A. Many people wandering around like headless chickens not sure whether to get on it or not - after all "the board says...".

At Crewe on Monday there was a lot of confusion as the 10.40(?) Holyhead was late arriving on Platform 11, and those of us waiting for the 10.57 to Liverpool were starting to get anxious as the time crept towards OUR departure slot and there was still a muddle going on as passengers on the eventually arrived Holyhead got out of one end to get into the other, as the train was splitting.

I was anxiously awaiting a platform change announcement for the Liverpool, but it did come in (also late!) on 11. Was it late because it was waiting for the previous train to clear? Anyway it didn't make the time up, so I only had 7 mins at Liverpool South Parkway instead of the scheduled 9, which was a helluva rush as I needed to pop into the loo en route to the furthest end of the station to catch my Southport connection, which I had to make due to timed arrangements in Southport!

Incidentally they announced on the LM to Liverpool that only one toilet was working on the whole train, which is why I didn't bother to go and search for it! Not very good is it?

The tannoy system at Moorfields is abysmal, and always seems to coincide with another train coming through, thus drowning out the announcement, which is garbled at the best of times. I blame the equipment not the announcer - it desperately needs improving.

 

[Greenback]

I am not perfect. I have found myself on the wrong train in the past, but only twice in twenty five years. And on one of those occasions the tannoy announcement that the train was no longer going where I wanted to go was so muffled as to be inaudible.

I have also misread timetables and turned up for a train that didn't run on a Monday. Which just goes to show that even people with a knowledge of the railway and it's workings can get it wrong sometimes.

But I have to agree, that there seem to be a lot more people these days who simply don't bother looking at the information that is available to them at the station. I wonder whether this is more to do with familiarity, in that they are so used to going to the same platform they do not check what train is there, or an over reliance on mobile phone apps for platform numbers!

 

[craigwilson]

They do on the Electrostars, as do Southern.

Yep, and they also have the messages that tell you what coaches to be in where there are short platforms - e.g the early 12-car Cannon Street train that goes through Sandwich says "Passengers may only alight from the front 8 coaches, as this station has a short platform"

 

[ollyrogers]

I consider myself to be a decent user of the railways - I'll check the boards, listen to the announcements etc but I remember one situation that sticks quite vividly:

On the way back from Oxford to Didcot last winter around 5:00, there was a large crowd on the platform waiting for the fast train to Paddington stopping s DID and RDG, and this was announced alongside announcements for a delayed fast train, which did not stop at DID. A HST pulled in aong with the announcement of "the next train is for DID and RDG", so the large crowd got on the train. Just before the doors closed the driver came on the tannoy saying this was the fast service and anyone for DID should leave the train and embark on the next one, cue a mad rush for the exit from a large proportion of the train, and a lovely French woman who I'd been talking to on the platform running up and knocking on my window frantically for me to get off

So it's not always the end user who is at fault

 

[gnolife]

one that I tend to see a lot of is people mixing up the evening Manchester Picc to Alderley Edge via Man Airport with the 8 minutes earlier Manchester Picc to Alderley Edge via Stockport

one that i did myself one time when Manchester Airport just got its 3rd platform was that an annoucement came saying Platform 1B for stations to Manchester Piccadilly, so i got on the train at what WAS platform 1B, to get myself whisked off to Crewe... it also didnt help matters when i dozed off

 

[EM2]

I could cope with the idiocy of the public, it was getting the blame for it that got me down.
'When's the Bedford train?'
'14.30, boarding now on platform 2'
Two minutes later,I am met with a volley of abuse, in the middle of which was 'that train doesn't stop at St. Albans'.
'You didn't ask for St.Albans sir, you asked for Bedford.'
Cue another volley of abuse...

When I announced a service that splits: 'This service waill call at A, B, C and D where the service will divide. Passengers for E must travel in the rear five coaches only, nearest to the ticket barrier. Passengers for all other destinations beyond D must travel in the front five coaches, furthest from the ticket barrier.'
I then got a dozen queries from staff out on the station asking for clarification. Now I read all the stops, and then just say 'Please note that this train divides at D. Passengers for E must travel in the rear part only of this train'

 

[RichmondCommu]

With the rising cost of fuel more and more people are choosing to use the train, many for the first time which represents a fantastic window of opportunity for the railways. No matter how stupid their questions may seem, station / on-board staff who are patient and helpful will encourage people to use the train again. And surely that is what we all want?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No matter how stupid their questions may seem, station / on-board staff who are patient and helpful will encourage people to use the train again. And surely that is what we all want?

I am sure that this statement is featured prominently in the on-train staff training manuals issued by the Japanese train companies.

 

[HST Power]

one that i did myself one time when Manchester Airport just got its 3rd platform was that an annoucement came saying Platform 1B for stations to Manchester Piccadilly, so i got on the train at what WAS platform 1B, to get myself whisked off to Crewe... it also didnt help matters when i dozed off

Now that is a journey gone wrong!

Where were you when you woke up?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One that I tend to see a lot of is people mixing up the evening Manchester Picc to Alderley Edge via Man Airport with the 8 minutes earlier Manchester Picc to Alderley Edge via Stockport

This is one example that should NOT happen. The destination boards on each platform at Manchester Piccadilly CLEARLY state all the names of the stations served.

One board would say the stops as being Levenshulme, Heaton Chapel, Stockport, Cheadle Hulme, Handforth, Wilmslow and Alderley Edge.

The other board would say the stops as being Maldeth Road, Burnage, East Didsbury, Gatley, Heald Green, Manchester Airport, Wilmslow and Alderley Edge.

Since both Wilmslow and Alderley Edge are served both BOTH trains, where such a mistake would be of no consequence, you must be referring to passengers wanting to go to the intermediate stops.

Manchester Piccadilly station is one of the better stations for the clarity of the announcements being made, so that should make less chance of any misundertanding as they would say "via Stockport" or "via Manchester Airport" in the announcement.

 

[pmgarvey]

Standing by the cab door of a voyager in full uniform at Manchester Piccadilly

Woman. Is this the train to Birmingham New Street ?
Me. Yes this is the one
Woman. Are you sure ?
Me. Yes I am sure, I am driving it
Woman. But how do you know its definitely the right one ?
I thought at this point it was best to just say it is and get in the cab before I said something I would regret !

Even I, who practically stares constantly at the board until I actually have to get on the train (just in case), was shocked to hear that one.

 

[gnolife]

Now that is a journey gone wrong!

Where were you when you woke up?

Woke up as we were leaving Sandbach, the conductor that i had for it was very good natured about the whole affair, and got the platform staff there to help me get to my destination (Northwich).

This is one example that should NOT happen. The destination boards on each platform at Manchester Piccadilly CLEARLY state all the names of the stations served.

Since both Wilmslow and Alderley Edge are served both BOTH trains, where such a mistake would be of no consequence, you must be referring to passengers wanting to go to the intermediate stops.
Manchester Piccadilly station is one of the better stations for the clarity of the announcements being made, so that should make less chance of any misundertanding as they would say "via Stockport" or "via Manchester Airport" in the announcement.

They dont actually say "via Stockport" on the Stockport trains, it just says "Alderley Edge", although i do agree with you on the fact that it shouldnt happen anyways, Im assuming that people just get told to catch the Alderley train, and they get on whichevers there.