Doncaster-Manchester

[johnnychips]

Hi. Tomorrow I'd like to go on a day trip from Donny to Manchester. I think I could go via Leeds - Bradford - Rochdale (Maps WK+WY+GM) and I'd like to come back via Sheffield. If I look this up on TOC websites, return tickets seem to specify either via Leeds or via Sheffield. Can someone tell me which ticket I need and how much? I'm getting headache! No railcards etc.

 

[calc7]

Hi. Tomorrow I'd like to go on a day trip from Donny to Manchester. I think I could go via Leeds - Bradford - Rochdale (Maps WK+WY+GM) and I'd like to come back via Sheffield. If I look this up on TOC websites, return tickets seem to specify either via Leeds or via Sheffield. Can someone tell me which ticket I need and how much? I'm getting headache! No railcards etc.

There are no "Any Permitted" fares for this flow.
You should buy the cheaper "via Sheffield" return and excess the relevant portion before travel for half the difference to "via Leeds".

 

[johnnychips]

There are no "Any Permitted" fares for this flow.
You should buy the cheaper "via Sheffield" return and excess the relevant portion before travel for half the difference to "via Leeds".

Ah. That would explain it. (Thanks to a 'Mr X' who PM'd me with an intriguing anomaly that probably doesn't need circulating). Will get to station early and do that. Thanks.

 

[Oscar]

Although not the cheapest option in the case, I am aware that a Doncaster - Manchester Stns Via Leeds ticket is valid for travel via Sheffield as this is a cheaper route for all ticket types. Could someone remind me however where the information stating that cheaper routes are permitted is. The National Routeing Guide In Detail only seems to have the following seemingly nonsensical piece of text:

Step 7: Trace the journey on the maps to find its permitted routes.
The yellow pages list 5 routes for this journey. If the ticket is unrouted or has the
route “Any Permitted”, any of these routes may be used. There is also a routed fare
via Manchester. A ticketholder with a ticket routed “Manchester” must go via
Manchester and therefore only has a choice of those routes in the list that include
Manchester. This excludes MM. If the “Any Permitted” fare is less than the
“Manchester” routed fare, the ticketholder may not go via Manchester. If the “Any
Permitted” fare is more than the “Manchester” routed fare it may be used via
Manchester.

Surely "Any Permitted" means at the very least any route permitted by the Routeing Guide?

 

[bb21]

Although not the cheapest option in the case, I am aware that a Doncaster - Manchester Stns Via Leeds ticket is valid for travel via Sheffield as this is a cheaper route for all ticket types. Could someone remind me however where the information stating that cheaper routes are permitted is.

You don't need documentation. Officially the passenger needs a zero fare Change of Route Excess as the alternative route travelled on is cheaper, however this can be done onboard regardless of whether there was an open ticket office at the origin. Many guards of course do not bother with issuing such an excess, hence effectively a ticket for the more expensive route is valid on a cheaper route.

 

[yorkie]

Ah. That would explain it. (Thanks to a 'Mr X' who PM'd me with an intriguing anomaly that probably doesn't need circulating). Will get to station early and do that. Thanks.

I know exactly what anomaly that would be , I meant to PM it to you a while back but may have forgotten to send it - sorry! I would go with the anomaly as it is totally reasonable, cheaper, and much less hassle than faffing around with excesses.

If you asked for the Manchester ticket, booking office staff should offer this to you:-

Where two or more permitted routes are available for a specific journey*,
customers may wish to travel out by one route and return by another. If a
higher fare applies for the return leg of the journey the customer should be
issued with a ticket for the more direct route and an excess fare issued to
cover the difference in fare for the return routeing. This option should be
made available to customers who wish to pre-book a dual routed ticket prior
to travel.

* in this case, route: via Sheffield and route: via Leeds

That said, while many booking office staff do not seem able/willing to issue excess fares, unlike some other excess fares (eg. Std to 1st or overdistance) your right to a change of route excess at half the difference between the fare paid and the appropriate fare applies equally on board the train so if the ticket office won't issue the excess when you purchase it, then you can simply board anyway and you cannot be penalised.

The only problem with that, is at certain stations there are ticket gates in operation where the barrier staff may insist on the excess being purchased before allowing you through. For example although a passenger on a Rte: via High Wycombe ticket cannot be charged any more than half the difference to the appropriate Any Permitted fare on Virgin, the gateline staff will likely insist on the excess being purchased before allowing you access to platforms, this delay can cause you to miss a train potentially.

So, you are entitled to an excess and that excess can be bought on board at the same price, but it's easier to buy the anomaly ticket that avoids the faffing about.

 

[johnnychips]

And as usual, when I post on this forum about fares, unless I'm going to Nottingham, something happens!

This time I had a boiler leak, and spent the morning sorting it out. However, I'll try again next Saturday, and thank you all for your kind comments and suggestions.