Dog Fell Between Platform and Train.

[Dieseldriver]

Would that not be more suited to an 'URGENT' call ?

No. If the Driver deems that the incident needs all lines blocked then no, it would be an Emergency call. If the Driver decides that it doesn't need all lines immediately blocked then it would be an Urgent call.
It depends on location, electrified lines, initial assessment of the person, linespeeds, geometry of the location, exact position of the person relating to running lines etc.

 

[greyman42]

This would presumably be considered an appropriate use of the REC button?

What is the REC button?

 

[LowLevel]

What is the REC button?

It's a railway emergency call button located in a train cab. When pressed it sends an emergency stop message followed by a broadcast from whoever pressed it to all trains in the area, the signaller and the route control. Drivers are the primary user though guards, platform staff, fitters and other operational grades are trained on it's use as well. If you've been trained you're entitled to use it as you see fit.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Well if a Dog jumps down and touches something electrical, it could blow the circuits so probably red button time.

 

[Eric]

Well if a Dog jumps down and touches something electrical, it could blow the circuits so probably red button time.

I don't think the dog jumped down on Tuesday.

The elderly woman clearly said that her dog had fallen down the gap as she was walking onto the train.

I hope she's ok, she seemed really distressed.

 

[Eric]

It's a railway emergency call button located in a train cab. When pressed it sends an emergency stop message followed by a broadcast from whoever pressed it to all trains in the area, the signaller and the route control. Drivers are the primary user though guards, platform staff, fitters and other operational grades are trained on it's use as well. If you've been trained you're entitled to use it as you see fit.

Sorry the driver on my train didn't use it and instead phoned the signal man.

Should he have pressed the button?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Sorry the driver on my train didn't use it and instead phoned the signal man.

Should he have pressed the button?

Yes. Especially after the Doggo started wandering.

 

[Bromley boy]

Sorry the driver on my train didn't use it and instead phoned the signal man.

Should he have pressed the button?

How do you know he didn’t press it, I take it you weren’t in the cab with him?!

Yes. Especially after the Doggo started wandering.

Only if he perceived there was an immediate thread to life (human life, not the dog’s life). Nobody on here can comment on whether he was right to take the actions he did, simply because we weren’t there!

 

[Eric]

How do you know he didn’t press it, I take it you weren’t in the cab with him?!



Only if he perceived there was an immediate thread to life (human life, not the dog’s life). Nobody on here can comment on whether he was right to take the actions he did, simply because we weren’t there!

I don't know he didn't press it, but he went in the cab and was on the phone.

He came back out and said he'd let the signal man know.

Within 60-90 seconds of him doing this and him, the owner and other passengers all shouting at the dog, the train on the other line came and hit the poor dog.

 

[6Gman]

What are drivers supposed to do when they receive an Emergency Call? Do they wait for further information or is it an immediate emergency brake application?

If the latter does this not pose a potential risk of injury to passengers?

Who - with all due respect - are more important than a dog.

 

[Bromley boy]

I don't know he didn't press it, but he went in the cab and was on the phone.

Pressing the button would necessitate a period on the cab handset to make the emergency call (which other drivers are patched in on).

Within 60-90 seconds of him doing this and him, the owner and other passengers all shouting at the dog, the train on the other line came and hit the poor dog.

The fact the approaching train was moving at speed implies the red button wasn’t pushed on this occasion. Sadly the signaller might not have had time to caution the driver.

If the latter does this not pose a potential risk of injury to passengers?

Who - with all due respect - are more important than a dog.

Immediate emergency stop. The braking rate isn’t severe enough to pose much of a risk to passengers.

The procedure is designed to ensure that as soon as the call comes through all trains in the affected area stop immediately. After all, you don’t know what has prompted the call. It’s usually a fatality or someone in imminent danger.

 

[6Gman]

But presumably a dog on the line isn't an emergency hazard in itself?

Trains regularly mow down badgers without mishap. And they're chunkier than most dogs.

 

[Bromley boy]

But presumably a dog on the line isn't an emergency hazard in itself?

Trains regularly mow down badgers without mishap. And they're chunkier than most dogs.

No, but there is a *high* risk of the owner (or someone else) following it onto the tracks in order to rescue it.

 

[fowler9]

Blimey this is so complicated. In my household we have a dog, it isn't mine but I accept that it is our responsibility to keep it safe, I don't expect the rest of the world to grind to a halt if we don't. Many dog owners don't accept this. They made an active choice to get a pet that isn't incredibly adept at understanding railway safety and road safety and many other things. In my job in housing we get many dog owners who want an emergency call out to fix the fence so if if they let the dog out it can't escape. I'm sorry but no, emergencies are there for if the house is falling down, not so you can let the dog out for a wee without having to look after it. Many dog owners should think about this before deciding to get one as a pet. It is your responsibility. Apologies, I don't think I worded this very well at all.

 

[Bedpan]

On the other hand it would be terribly distressing for a lot of people to see any animal mown down and maybe cut up by a train, let alone a dog. There must therefore be an argument for the pressing of the REC button to be justified when a dog is on the track in a situation such as this, particularly if the incident occurred in front of a large number of people. I've tried to word this carefully so as not to infer any criticism on the driver who has all sorts of things to weigh up and who sounds as though he has done his best to achieve a happier outcome -- it must have been a small dog as I can't imagine an old lady carrying a labrador sized pooch onto a train, and bearing in mind we don't know where it happened we don't know how crowded the platform/train was and/or how many people witnessed the incident.

 

[Bromley boy]

On the other hand it would be terribly distressing for a lot of people to see any animal mown down and maybe cut up by a train, let alone a dog.

That’s tough I’m afraid. The dog should have been kept under control.

The red button is pushed if there is a perceived danger to human life. Not to protect pets which shouldn’t be on the tracks in the first place.

 

[John Luxton]

Not dogs but sheep ...

In my lifetime I have been on two trains which have had an altercation with a sheep and another which dropped a vet off to despatch an injured animal.

The first incident was around 1979 on a Barnstaple to Exeter train near the Barnstaple end of the line. Some sheep had got onto the line, I think a farm crossing gate had been left open. Sat behind the driver in the DMU I saw everything, the driver had started braking obviously intending to go past slowly when one sheep breaks away and jumps into the 4 foot staring at the train.

Driver pulls brake on hard and we slide to a stand but not before said sheep had disappeared. It had just stood there staring at the train.

Driver and guard climbed down and looked under the unit. Obviously not much they could do so train continued to next lineside phone to call in and report it.

Second incident was only last year on a Welsh narrow gauge line, which I won't identify, when a sheep was run over on a section of track bordered by dry stone walls.

We didn't know at first what had happened until the guard came around to tell passengers. The train then continued to the next stop where the driver had a lengthy mobile conversation with control. Then we continued.

The third incident probably about 10 to 15 years ago on the Snaefell Mountain Railway when I was on an ascending car from Laxey which dropped a vet off above Bungalow station to deal with a sheep which had been struck by another car earlier.

In neither of the sheep strike incidents I experienced was any impact felt on board, so I imagine that would be the case with any poor old pooch. In last year's incident there didn't appear to be any 'splat' on the front of the narrow gauge loco when we arrived at the end of the line.

John

 

[TheEdge]

There are a lot of armchair experts telling us (drivers) when we should and shouldn't press the REC button. No one except me can decide when and when not to press that red button. I will only press that button if its going to stop a human from being injured. Now that doesn't mean I'm never going to use it for a non human danger, if there is a herd of cattle on the line, I'm gonna hit that button, not to save the cattle but to stop anyone else hitting them. And no-one is going to come and tell me off for using it when I saw fit, as has already been alluded to, the worst possible scenario is that drivers have any doubt about pressing a REC button at the risk of a comeback.

Much like Bromley Boy I'm not hitting that button for a dog by itself. A dog alone on a single line, that'll get a normal priority call to the controlling box, a dog alone on a double (or more line), that'll probably get an urgent call, just in case an owner is nearby but I've not seen them and there is a risk they may arrive. However any situation where an person is on the line, that would get a REC call.

 

[fowler9]

There are a lot of armchair experts telling us (drivers) when we should and shouldn't press the REC button. No one except me can decide when and when not to press that red button. I will only press that button if its going to stop a human from being injured. Now that doesn't mean I'm never going to use it for a non human danger, if there is a herd of cattle on the line, I'm gonna hit that button, not to save the cattle but to stop anyone else hitting them. And no-one is going to come and tell me off for using it when I saw fit, as has already been alluded to, the worst possible scenario is that drivers have any doubt about pressing a REC button at the risk of a comeback.

Much like Bromley Boy I'm not hitting that button for a dog by itself. A dog alone on a single line, that'll get a normal priority call to the controlling box, a dog alone on a double (or more line), that'll probably get an urgent call, just in case an owner is nearby but I've not seen them and there is a risk they may arrive. However any situation where an person is on the line, that would get a REC call.

Wouldn't dream of telling a driver when and how to react myself. It is a highly responsible job and after experiencing how hard it is to even try and become one am happy to trust in their judgement. I don't trust the judgement of dog owners quite as much.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Unfortunately there was an identical incident at Rowlands Castle last night involving four dogs in which one ended up on the track and quickly became a hot dog so to speak.

 

[Bromley boy]

Unfortunately there was an identical incident at Rowlands Castle last night involving four dogs in which one ended up on the track and quickly became a hot dog so to speak.

It’s regrettable dog owners can’t be more responsible when using the railway with their pets.

The majority are, or course, but a minority will always let the side down.

 

[8A Rail]

Reading this unfortunate incident and my thoughts immediately go to the old lady, she probably lost her closest companion! It is a sad story indeed.

This reminded of tragic incident some years ago that happened although not directly rail related at the Penmaenmawr footbridge that crosses the railway and A55 to the beach! A old gentleman was crossing the footbridge with is dog (not on a lead although he did have one) who was ahead of the gentleman on the footbridge. The dog then proceeded down the steps towards the A55 lay-by were I was parked. Yes I had been photographing trains. Although the owner kept calling the dog's name, he would not respond and the dog was dangerously heading towards the busy road were I realise what could happen! I then proceeded to catch the dog without frightening him and on a couple of occasions I was literally a 1cm of grabbing him. However, the dog decided to proceed towards the busy road and for a couple of minutes manage to avoid the traffic partly because I was waving down the traffic to slow down, not easy when some traffic travelling 50/60 mph! However, the evitable happened and coach knocked the dog over - instant death! Watching that has never left my memories, the old gentleman was visibility distraught and had realise his error of his way but regardless you felt sorry for him. Yet for me, I was so near but so far but an example of the 'if' only thoughts.

Forgive me for writing the above, I am a dog owner myself and they do become close to say the least but this incident just reminded of the above although happened many years ago!

 

[carriageline]

This has raised some valid things from all sides!!

From the ‘box side, it can be a tough call on what is right or wrong. I’ve seen the chaos REC calls can make ‘unnecessarily’ But if a driver decided it is necessary then no one should question him/her. They are the ONLY person who can decide on what is or isn’t safe, after all it is right in front of them!

I’ve always viewed an urgent call as a way to report something that requires immediate attention, but doesn’t require trains stopping at that exact second (IE trespassers lineside but not immediately at risk)

And a REC call for situations which require other lines blocked and trains stopped immediately, as it will be placing trains/life at risk.

Whenever we have had signaller trainees, they have always seemed scared over the use of the red button. But, I’ve always explained that I would rather sit in an office explaining why I deemed it necessary to use it when perhaps it turned out it wasn’t quite necessary, rather than explaining in court or to Police why I didn’t use it when I should of.

After all, if all correct procedure is followed, most trains should be on the move in a few minutes

 

[TheEdge]

Whenever we have had signaller trainees, they have always seemed scared over the use of the red button. But, I’ve always explained that I would rather sit in an office explaining why I deemed it necessary to use it when perhaps it turned out it wasn’t quite necessary, rather than explaining in court or to Police why I didn’t use it when I should of.

That is an outstanding way of thinking about it and describing it.

 

[carriageline]

That is an outstanding way of thinking about it and describing it.

I say the same with most safety critical things, EG replacing signals. If your in doubt whether you should do it, then just do it. We (drivers/track staff/signallers) don’t really have the benefits of time to make decisions in the heat of the moment. Seconds can mean life or death.

I don’t think “I wasn’t sure if I should do XYZ” would ever cut it if someone was to be hurt or killed.

 

[LAX54]

It was not until recently when we were watching a video on the GSMR website, think that's where it was, we were in fact looking for something else at the time, that we saw what the Driver gets when the Signaller sends 'Urgent' in the cab it did not seem that much urgency in the display or 'ring' tone ! (unless its changed since the video was made), A signaller commented, better off sending REC to be on the safe side, they wont miss that.

 

[carriageline]

I always thought that the receiving train was meant to come to a stand upon receiving an urgent call! Maybe I’m wrong!

 

[TheEdge]

It was not until recently when we were watching a video on the GSMR website, think that's where it was, we were in fact looking for something else at the time, that we saw what the Driver gets when the Signaller sends 'Urgent' in the cab it did not seem that much urgency in the display or 'ring' tone ! (unless its changed since the video was made), A signaller commented, better off sending REC to be on the safe side, they wont miss that.

I didn't know signallers could make urgent calls to trains, I thought they only had normal or REC.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I didn't know signallers could make urgent calls to trains, I thought they only had normal or REC.

I have received a few. The ring tone is identical to a normal call but it does say 'Urgent' on the screen. I think it should be a different tone to differentiate it from a normal call.

 

[lineclear]

Urgent calls to drivers auto connect, normal calls don't.