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Does trainsplit.com actually recognise Railcards

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tom73

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The site is offering me a fare (KGX-LDS with Railcard of £22.15 claiming it is saving me £8.20
LNER website offering me exactly the same journey with Railcard, changing at Doncaster onto a following LNER service for £20.70)
It rather shakes your confidence in ticket splitting websites
 
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Haywain

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This is happening not because of any fault in TrainSplit's website, but because of anticompetitive, incorrect, and frankly probably illegal discounting by LNER.

LNER and some other long-distance operators have a system whereby they sell [Super] Off-Peak Single tickets at half the price of the equivalent Return, provided you are booking a return journey - but only when booking online, and the appendix (Online) is added to the ticket name to signify the difference. So this might be useful for someone who can commit to a specific train and get an Advance on it in one direction, but who need the flexibility of a walk-up ticket in the other direction. Ordinarily, such Singles are usually priced only £1 or so below the equivalent Return, so as you can see, this is a very good offer.

Unfortunately, where LNER go wrong is in how they sell this ticket on their frankly incompetent website. Despite Virgin Trains East Coast having introduced their new website several years ago, several key issues remain. One of them is the fact that the website is unable to deal with the concept of forcing you to buy a return journey in order to get a [Super] Off-Peak Single (Online) ticket. This therefore means that they have implemented a "workaround" hack whereby they will instead sell you an ordinary [Super] Off-Peak Single, but 50% discounted (so actually slightly less than the 'correct' price of a [Super] Off-Peak Single (Online)).

This being a hack, there are some side effects - and one of them is the fact that it will sell you the 50% discounted ticket even where you are only booking a one-way journey. Another is the fact that you can only buy it if the itinerary contains solely LNER services. And, as they are selling the ticket at a discount (as if it were a promotional discount), you are unable to get a Railcard discount as well as the 50% discount, and therefore if you add a Railcard the ticket will get more expensive! Every other journey planner seems to handle this whole situation just fine - it's only LNER's rubbish website that has these limitations.

Of course, for the customer themselves, they are, in most cases, going to pay less if they use LNER's website. But this is an unfair advantage that LNER are offering merely because their website is so incompetently built. However, as other websites are able to sell the [Super] Off-Peak Single (Online) fares correctly, including with a Railcard discount, then in certain circumstances it may be cheapest to buy such a fare in the direction you wish to use it, and then to buy a very cheap Advance ticket for some arbitrary date in the future. This works best where you are on a route with several operators - so it may still be cheapest to split tickets at Doncaster, for example.

I agree that this is a wholly unsatisfactory situation, but what TrainSplit are saying is not wrong - if you turned up to the station on the day, you would pay £8.20 more as you would be sold a through ticket, plus in any case you would not get a [Super] Off-Peak Single (Online) ticket from a ticket machine or ticket office. However, LNER's incompetent website means they are undercutting other retailers, who, in good faith, say they are offering the lowest price.

So, really, who you ought to be complaining to is LNER.
Very detailed rant, but the price quoted does not back up your claims.

To answer the question posed by the OP we need more detail about the journey. I suspect it is about the availability of tickets in a specific Advance quota.
 

yorkie

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The site is offering me a fare (KGX-LDS with Railcard of £22.15 claiming it is saving me £8.20
LNER website offering me exactly the same journey with Railcard, changing at Doncaster onto a following LNER service for £20.70)
It rather shakes your confidence in ticket splitting websites
Can you provide the journey information please.

Without information then yes it could be an Advance quota issue; someone could have added the last fare at the cheaper price to their basket as you were looking, but unless it's released from their basket, a reservation can't be issued.
 

Starmill

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I'm sorry, we aren't in a position to provide any sensible analysis with the information available. I must say London to Leeds (please, it is reccomend to write any codes out in full the first time you use them) using two LNER services changing at Doncaster sounds an awful lot like you are travelling on a day when engineering work is taking place, which if so could easily mean the itineraries aren't the same. This would be a very easy thing to overlook.
 

sheff1

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Trainsplit often claims "savings" which are misleading, at best, when using Railcards.

Example for 2 Feb: If you enter Kings Cross to Leeds, without any request to change en route, Trainsplit offers (Advances with a Railcard) :

Kings Cross 1148 Doncaster 1324 - £16.15
Doncaster 1343 Leeds 1416 - £4.80

Total Fare - £20.95 which, they claim, saves you £53.30 so they want their share of £6.29, which means you pay £27.04 if you book through them. The 'saving' of course relates to the Super Off Peak single. In reality any normal person wanting to book an Advance from KGX to LDS at that time would much prefer to travel direct on the 1203 (which is the 1416 arrival) on which the through Advance fare is £19.15.

If you make the same request without a railcard, the unnecessary and more expensive change at Doncaster is not offered - just the through Advance on the 1203 @ £29.00.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Trainsplit often claims "savings" which are misleading, at best, when using Railcards.

Example for 2 Feb: If you enter Kings Cross to Leeds, without any request to change en route, Trainsplit offers (Advances with a Railcard) :

Kings Cross 1148 Doncaster 1324 - £16.15
Doncaster 1343 Leeds 1416 - £4.80

Total Fare - £20.95 which, they claim, saves you £53.30 so they want their share of £6.29, which means you pay £27.04 if you book through them. The 'saving' of course relates to the Super Off Peak single. In reality any normal person wanting to book an Advance from KGX to LDS at that time would much prefer to travel direct on the 1203 (which is the 1416 arrival) on which the through Advance fare is £19.15.

If you make the same request without a railcard, the unnecessary and more expensive change at Doncaster is not offered - just the through Advance on the 1203 @ £29.00.
But it is correct that they are saving you that amount compared to the through fare, and that is all they are marketed as saving you.
 

sheff1

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It is misleading to suggest that they are saving you £53.30 on a journey from Kings Cross to Leeds leaving ~1200 solely because they have added in an unnecessary change en route which you did not request and the through Advance fare, without that change, is £19.15. The more important point is that this unnecessary change only appears if you request a Railcard fare.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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It is misleading to suggest that they are saving you £53.30 on a journey from Kings Cross to Leeds leaving ~1200 solely because they have added in an unnecessary change en route which you did not request and the through Advance fare, without that change, is £19.15. The more important point is that this unnecessary change only appears if you request a Railcard fare.
It's perhaps a little disingenuous but for what they are actually mathematically comparing it to (the through fare for that particular itinerary), it is correct. Now of course the issue of an unnecessary change is something else...
 

Starmill

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It looks to me like it is offering the cheapest fare for that specific itinerary, and correctly calculates the saving. I'm unclear on where that specific itinerary is coming from or why though, and I don't have time to investigate further right now.
 

infobleep

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What sheff1 is trying to say is that if you put in a railcard, it should be ignored if there is a cheaper fare not involving it.

I don't know if it does that or not. Never had an issue with it myself though.
 

yorkie

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Trainsplit often claims "savings" which are misleading, at best, when using Railcards.

Example for 2 Feb: If you enter Kings Cross to Leeds, without any request to change en route, Trainsplit offers (Advances with a Railcard) :

Kings Cross 1148 Doncaster 1324 - £16.15
Doncaster 1343 Leeds 1416 - £4.80

Total Fare - £20.95 which, they claim, saves you £53.30 so they want their share of £6.29, which means you pay £27.04 if you book through them. The 'saving' of course relates to the Super Off Peak single. In reality any normal person wanting to book an Advance from KGX to LDS at that time would much prefer to travel direct on the 1203 (which is the 1416 arrival) on which the through Advance fare is £19.15.

If you make the same request without a railcard, the unnecessary and more expensive change at Doncaster is not offered - just the through Advance on the 1203 @ £29.00.
I have tested this extensively and I never got the overtaken itinerary to show by default

It only shows if you change advanced options or click "intensive search"

The intensive search option looks for slower itineraries as these can be cheaper on occasions.

The above results were regardless of railcard discount.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the pricing but arguably that particular result should not be shown, when using intensive search.

Edit: actually for walk up fares the overtaken journey is cheaper, and I would imagine it's quite a challenge to make the result disappear when clicking on the tab for Advanced fares. So it's not that simple.
 
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