Does 'Tilt' have a future?

[Backroom_boy]

With the HS2 spine removing high express services from the WCML, does tilt have a future at all? Will it be used on the Northern part of the WCML still?

 

[hexagon789]

With the HS2 spine removing high express services from the WCML, does tilt have a future at all? Will it be used on the Northern part of the WCML still?

Not by the HS2 services, they won't tilt.

Perhaps a similar enhanced MU speed profile as the Southern WCML will be implemented.

It was certainly discussed when the 397s appeared but subsequently shelved I understand.

 

[Irascible]

There's been work put into lighter weight tilting mechanisms ( the last I read up on was basically all inside the bogies ) - the actual tilt is less than the full-fat tilt we have at the moment, but less complicated generally means broader possible takeup. Trains not needing lineside equipment would help a lot too., but a train having it's own route knowledge would benefit many other areas, so I think that's a broader discussion.

I've no idea if lightweight tilt mechanisms have been taken up much yet, I was far more interested in the idea than any implementation.

 

[HSTEd]

Various Shinkansen trains are being fitted with active suspension, with one degree of tilt on the N700 series.

Improved speed limit on 2500m curves from 255kph to 270kph.

Nothing like the six degrees on the Voyagers though

 

[CharlieSpotted]

If by 'Tilt' you're referring to the fantastic pinball / craft beer bar in Birmingham, I sure hope so.

 

[MarkyT]

There's been work put into lighter weight tilting mechanisms ( the last I read up on was basically all inside the bogies ) - the actual tilt is less than the full-fat tilt we have at the moment, but less complicated generally means broader possible takeup. Trains not needing lineside equipment would help a lot too., but a train having it's own route knowledge would benefit many other areas, so I think that's a broader discussion.

I've no idea if lightweight tilt mechanisms have been taken up much yet, I was far more interested in the idea than any implementation.

Bombardier were actively selling their version of this until their Twindexx units for SBB turned out to be such a failure. Active 'mechatronic' bogies based on the work of a Japanese engineer were a feature with primary use for yaw damping, allowing higher speeds for the double deck bodyshells through some more limited clearance alpine bridges and tunnels where the dynamic envelope was an issue for such large vehicles. Although the fleet has been accepted now (with some additional free ones thrown in for the trouble) the active components in the bogies have been replaced by conventional ones and the illusory speed benefits abandoned. A secondary benefit of the tech was the ability for modest tilting of the bodyshell, improving ride quality on certain curves at a slightly higher speed. In Japan the N700 series Shinkansen trains also have a small degree of tilt incorporated to allow a minor uplift in speed on the original 1960s high speed route between Tokyo and Osaka, which is constrained by numerous 2500m radius curves. Also in Japan a simple passive tilt system is quite common on stock for limited stop expresses operating over the narrow gauge network. Edit: to be clear, the tilt mechanisms on 1067mm gauge express rolling stock in Japan, Taiwan and Queensland, Australia is 'semi-active' in that tilting is initiated passively by curving forces but regulated by pneumatic rams controlled by computer.

 

[brad465]

I can think of some other routes that would benefit from tilt to improve running speeds if not too expensive for rolling stock nor compromising passenger capacity, such as the whole route to Cornwall from Reading, and/or the Highland Mainline and routes to Aberdeen from Perth/Edinburgh.

 

[Route115?]

Yes it does. HS2 will not serve a lot of intermediate stations which will not want to see their journey times increased.

Obviously easing curves as we saw on the ECML during the Deltic era would be nice but that itsn't going to happen network wide.

I read somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that adding tilting added up to ten tonnes to the weight of a voyager vehicle. Thats a lot of additional weight and hence cost.

 

[RailWonderer]

I can think of some other routes that would benefit from tilt to improve running speeds if not too expensive for rolling stock nor compromising passenger capacity, such as the whole route to Cornwall from Reading, and/or the Highland Mainline and routes to Aberdeen from Perth/Edinburgh.

I started an thread on this regarding tilt's use on Scotrail https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/should-scotrail-order-tilting-trains.218464/
and the verdict was the infrastructure work needed would be prohibitively expensive and newer rolling stock with faster acceleration would be preferred to tilt and only on long distances (which Edinburgh - Aberdeen is). Cornwall - Reading not a chance for the next 30-35 years until the IETs are gone. I believe tilt can have a future but political and financial will is needed.

 

[Irascible]

read somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that adding tilting added up to ten tonnes to the weight of a voyager vehicle.

Yeah, but it doesn't *have* to weigh that much. At it's most basic you could do it all in the air secondary suspension we tend to use these days just by changing the pressure on each side - it'd only get you a degree or two but that'd actually make a difference & all it'd cost is some extra control mechanism. Unfortunately retrofitting into existing stock would need clearance work, although perhaps the required envelope might be similar to that for larger containers.