Does the Rail hobby need a kick up the......

[Electrostar]

Just a point about the technology side. Last night on Twitter I stumbled across the Flickr-hosted photo of the new 458/5. Shortly afterwards someone linked the picture on here. Perhaps this week, next week or sometime this month a similar photo will appear in the railway mags. I know some of the mags have Twitter and Facebook accounts and websites but perhaps they miss a trick by not posting more newsy items online first. As far as I'm aware this forum isn't affiliated with any of the traditional publications. In hindsight perhaps Rail or Rail Express etc could have increased their brand potential if they had built a forum all those years ago.

 

[LesS]

I have just found this thread and it is most interesting in many ways. Most of the issues raised are the same issues we have here on the other side of the world.

UK:
I suspect that "trainspoting" developed as a substitute for photography. Film was always relatively expensive. I expect it will gradually die out as digital photography takes over more and more.
I am encouraged by the number of under 30's who have contributed to this debate. It confirms my belief that railfans continue to enter the interst and are replacing the oldest as they become unable to continue an active interest.
Unless you can get super advance fares rail travel in the UK is expensive and a disincentive.

I encourage all younger railfans to become involved with local heritage or operational organisations. I particularly encourage both younger and older railfans to strike up conversations with each other when out trackside or on station platforms. It is amazing how much each can learn from the other - in both age directions.

NSW:
As an older railfan it has been a great pleasure since retiring to have met and befriended a considerable number of under 30's while out trackside. An immediate problem is getting the younger fans to take out membership of the heritage organisations. It seems to be something they do not do. I agree with Condor7 that Facebook and Yahoo groups are not a real substitute and often create small closed groups.
The most amazing thing to me is that the young fans are doing much the same as we did 40 years ago. They have more money than we did and are more mobile with cars. We used to take long country trips to see and photograph important trains at unusual hours (e.g.daylight) or find the last remaining steam. Today they go out in search of the surviving very old de's still working branch lines mainly but also secondary freight.

GENERAL:
I agree with the comment that the under 30's have no contemporary experience of anything other than dmu; emu sets. With locos, a Deltic would be a thing of wonder.

 

[wensley]

There has only been one occasion when I have known a train turn up that was not on RTT, strangely enough it was a working similar to the one in your example, a convoy between two preserved lines, though mine was all diesels, no Tea Pots involved!

But apart from that RTT has been great - almost like a mobile version of TRUST.

Before RTT it was guesswork and in 2013 there just isn't enough of interest to just turn up somewhere and "hope for the best" without knowing what is running. In the 90's and even early 00's you could just "turn up" at the busier places any time with no proper gen and get good results, but you certainly can't now!

It is good, but not on the same level as TRUST. it does seem to be VSTPs that are missed, and it is sometimes slow in updating with latest reports. It certainly makes it a lot easier to go out and photograph things, whatever system you have access to, sit in the house or the office until it's close then pop out

 

[Beveridges]

Thats why I said "almost"!

Nothing beats TRUST but its not mobile or available outside of work so RTT has to do most of the time.
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Taking Crewe as an example - nowadays if you spend an hour there then you could realistically expect to see

150s
153s
156s
175s
221s
323s
350s
390s

Plus freight, of course (and maybe a 142 or a 158, depending on availability).

That's fairly interesting, in terms of variety for any "spotting youth". The difference is that we've got older.

Speaking of Crewe, I was there on two separate nights about a month ago for just half an hour waiting for my train back to Preston at around midnight, and saw:

DRS/Virgin Class 57's
66's on cartics, transit vans, mixed goods, intermodals, steel, double-headed 66's on the Lessco's, etc.
Double headed 86's on Freightliner
Class 90's on the Inverness sleeper train
92 on mixed freight
70 on coal
class 56 running round a log train

Each visit saw at least six loco-hauled trains in the half hour, almost something happening at every moment. I did have to walk over to the independents to see some of that though.

If that's not good variety and quantity I don't know what is. There was no need to even pay any attention to any 150s, 153s, 156s, 175s, 221s, 323s, 350s or 390s that were knocking about.

 

[TrainfanBen]

I think the problem with the hobby is that despite all the technology, one of the major issues there is a stigma of having an interest in transport of any variety.
I'm 17, and my cousin 16. We've heard no end of snide comments on the subject of transport (just in general) and while we ignore it, it is quite disheartening.
I'm not quite sure how this would be dealt with, unless the railway industry in particular was more widely promoted positively to young people.

I think the way forward in some respects would be to have a more (and I'm going to sound like the WMPTE 'Centro') intergrated hobby and open up more opportunities for those who do have an interest to be involved, and where possible on a low budget as cost is inevitably a factor. With the prospect of higher education or jobs.

How this would be done is only speculation.

I don't wish to sound rude here, but I think there is also the perception that older enthusiasts and hobbyists don't wish to interact with the younger generation and that sometimes they presume that they know more purely because of their age. I sincerely hope this isn't true, but haven't much experience to decide either way, although on a trip to Nuneaton a few weeks ago there was a spotter who briefly stopped to speak to my cousin and I.

Interesting thread.

 

[Beveridges]

I don't wish to sound rude here, but I think there is also the perception that older enthusiasts and hobbyists don't wish to interact with the younger generation and that sometimes they presume that they know more purely because of their age

When I go to a bridge or station and there's a gang of spotters age 60+ I can always guarantee they will stick together and ignore anyone under 30, and so far I've always been right.

 

[ModernRailways]

When I go to a bridge or station and there's a gang of spotters age 60+ I can always guarantee they will stick together and ignore anyone under 30, and so far I've always been right.

I've experienced the same, if I'm alone or with friends of the same age. If I go with someone older (50+) then people may come over ask a question and then if my friend doesn't know the answer they may ask me to which the other person tends to say 'Oh it doesn't matter then.'

There are some nice ones out there though. Bob at Newcastle is one although he has some stories!

 

[wensley]

When I go to a bridge or station and there's a gang of spotters age 60+ I can always guarantee they will stick together and ignore anyone under 30, and so far I've always been right.

It is certainly the case in some places, and it's a shame, but in other places it can be great sitting on a bridge waiting for 'the' shot, laughing, joking and telling stories.

I won't forget at Hellifield this summer a friend and I had met up for a catch-up and on the offchance of some action to photograph. One bod appears and informs us that Scots Guardsman was going to be appearing on test, I checked this out and promptly came to the conclusion that the job wouldn't run. I was told very firmly in the tone of 'let the grown-ups talk here' "it'll have to run" and they wouldn't look me in the eye when after two hours it was a no show

 

[150001]

I'm 16 and have always, and always will, have an interest in trains (not to mention aircraft and shipping). I often go down to my local station on my bike and spend up to 2 hours there just watching the trains; it's quite relaxing actually. My dad also takes me to various places on the train which I'm always grateful for. I've never actually seen any other train spotters of my age around here although I'm sure there are. In my school year there's no one interested in trains; it would've been nice to have been a child around 40-50 years ago when trainspotting was more popular with youths. I've had snide comments about my hobby at school before and it really sometimes annoys me about their attitude but fortunately there are these forums to actually discuss transport with others who share the same interest.

 

[AlexS]

I've experienced the same, if I'm alone or with friends of the same age. If I go with someone older (50+) then people may come over ask a question and then if my friend doesn't know the answer they may ask me to which the other person tends to say 'Oh it doesn't matter then.'

There are some nice ones out there though. Bob at Newcastle is one although he has some stories!

On the other hand - I often natter with the regular spotters at my station and they're all friendly enough - that said I do work there so it may be a bit different. I don't think it is though, there are some younger lads that turn up from time to time and they all seem quite welcoming and friendly towards each other.

That said I think we have a fairly good reputation with the spotters in general as we tend to let them get on with it unless they're doing something silly, we don't enforce any of this signing in business and we let them through the ticket barriers.

 

[SamanthaJ1989]

I believe Steam will have it's time. What I think will happen, is in 10 or 20 years when the older generations start to disappear, we will start to see the shift. In 10 or 20 years what will our Railways look like? Look back 10 years ago, slam doors were still common-place in the southern regions, now they have been replaced with modern Class 377s, Class 450's, Class 444's etc. This also brings a shift, people then started seeing slam doors as heritage trains, and whilst Joe public won't get their camera out right now if they saw one who is to say that in 10 or 20 years time they won't be (or telling their headset to record)?

Steam will always be a fan favourite and will always rake in the crowds, but so will diesels and dare I say it, Electrics. Preserved lines will just need to keep up and make sure they don't get stuck in the past like some are. Most preserved routes should have well made websites. People like to be able to look before they head out. Enthusiasts will likely look on a website for volunteer positions.

37s are still fairly common, same with 47s. You can tell by the amount of people who go out to see them. Their are a lot less. I can see Pacers becoming the new old love when they go. People hate them right now, but when they're gone, people will miss them, they will moan about their new (well old, from another area) trains.

I imagine 66s will also go be a favourite eventually when they start to disappear. Granted that won't be for a good while yet. GBRf have another order for some more I believe?

Personally I'd love to see a 317,319,313,321 or another EMU from that era such as 456, 455, 508,365,465 or what have you see preservation one day. This is the era I'm into. I don't really know the availability of electrification of a preserved railway so a 150 would probably be the best DMU alternative.

I'm not joking but I think such will be resigned to my wishes and highly unlikely to become reality. Someone like me is likely better off videotaping these units/rides on them and then giving the hobby up when all that came to interest me in railways would by then have dissipated. I'm not really into steam or heavily modern looking units ie 450,377 etc so I'll probably just remember the good old days but give up actually partaking in the hobby in real life

 

[Southwest]

Some interesting comments here.

From the very first few replies, it seems that the younger element of our hobby religiously avoid the term train spotter and plump for rail enthusiast. I can only guess that it's to avoid being called names and having their hair pulled by their peers.

On the end of any platform at any station in the land with a notebook in your hand writing down numbers of trains that pass by shows you are a train spotter but I suppose the stigma of that title is enough to send boys and men scuttling for cover.

 

[Muzer]

I'm young and am quite happy to be called a trainspotter. It's just inaccurate, since I don't actually spot trains (yet ) - but it does sound nicer and less stuffy than "rail enthusiast". Not that that stops me from using the term - as I said, trainspotter is inaccurate for me personally - but should I become one, I wouldn't think twice about calling myself that.

 

[Harbon 1]

Some interesting comments here.

From the very first few replies, it seems that the younger element of our hobby religiously avoid the term train spotter and plump for rail enthusiast. I can only guess that it's to avoid being called names and having their hair pulled by their peers.

On the end of any platform at any station in the land with a notebook in your hand writing down numbers of trains that pass by shows you are a train spotter but I suppose the stigma of that title is enough to send boys and men scuttling for cover.

But trainspotting is an arm of being a rail enthusiast. I don't spot, I photograph, that makes me a rail enthusiast but not a spotter. Same with bashing. Bashers are bashers, not spotters

 

[Beveridges]

I do not find the word trainspotter offensive at all, afterall, regardless of what your doing, photography, bashing or notebook nedding, it all requires the individual to spot trains at some point.

 

[bb21]

When I go to a bridge or station and there's a gang of spotters age 60+ I can always guarantee they will stick together and ignore anyone under 30, and so far I've always been right.

I can vouch for that.

Waiting for your train can be a boring business at times, and sometimes I try and strike up a conversation with some spotters at the end of platforms. I have had some fascinating conversations, but there are some right old miserable things out there.

They might be in the minority (I hope) but these are not pleasant experiences and cannot be good for the image of rail enthusiasts.

 

[Temple Meads]

I can vouch for that.

Waiting for your train can be a boring business at times, and sometimes I try and strike up a conversation with some spotters at the end of platforms. I have had some fascinating conversations, but there are some right old miserable things out there.

They might be in the minority (I hope) but these are not pleasant experiences and cannot be good for the image of rail enthusiasts.

Agreed, although I doubt the average commuting/leisure traveller Joe is going to try to strike up a conversation with a platform ender anyway.

I've definitely had some very negative experiences with the older railfan though, those in their forties and fifties with massive cameras and lenses seem to be the worst in my experience, maybe because I take pictures of units? (I'm not saying they are all like that though, I've had some great conversations with 5D Mark III wielding BR Blue types )

 

[wensley]

I echo the opinion that most people would not object to being called a trainspotter were it not inaccurate! I'm a photographer, that's what I do and one of my chosen subjects is rail, I have a strong interest in the industry, but if you ask many of the 'hardcore' spotters they will probably be able to tell you a lot about fleets and locos, but I've found that a fair few have no grasps of the ops element - admittedly I've picked a lot of that up at work. I prefer to photograph as opposed to anything else as it's a skill and a challenge, you can always improve
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Agreed, although I doubt the average commuting/leisure traveller Joe is going to try to strike up a conversation with a platform ender anyway.

I've definitely had some very negative experiences with the older railfan though, those in their forties and fifties with massive cameras and lenses seem to be the worst in my experience, maybe because I take pictures of units? (I'm not saying they are all like that though, I've had some great conversations with 5D Mark III wielding BR Blue types )

A bit of stereotyping there I most definitely wield a MkIIID but I hope I don't look 40 In all seriousness, I get on really well with the crowd you describe in general, especially when it comes to being really picky and discussing photography!