Does NR Enquiries Think Passengers Are Idiots?

[al78]

I've had this happen to me when I was working at the local airport and I was riding my motorbike to work. The damn traffic lights I got stuck at had those light sensors on them to detect when a car pulled up and would automatically switch the lights to green (side road entering onto a dual lane urban carriageway) - because I was on a motorbike, it wouldn't/couldn't detect my headlamp and so I couldn't get the lights to switch. I ended up having to turn back up the road and ride towards the traffic lights a few times with the headlamp on full beam and it still didn't work. In total, I reckon I was stuck there for about 10 minutes, before deciding to sod it and go through the red light, only for a car to go past as I was pulling through the lights! Just my bloody luck!!

I think in such a situation the traffic lights can be deemed faulty and you can pass through with care if they are stuck on red. It is the same when riding a bicycle, the induction loops in the road don't always detect bicycles so when cycling at night with little traffic around, I have (in the past) been stuck at a red light that won't change, so I either go through carefully or dismount and walk on the pavement (if available). It is not reasonable to expect people to set up base camp for the night until such time that a car comes along to trigger the lights. You can report the defective lights to the appropriate authority which I have done in the past with some success.

It may be theoretically that what you are supposed to do is contact the police and wait for them to either deactivate the lights or manually direct traffic, but if I ever get prosecuted for going through a red light with care after establishing they are stuck on red, I will be happy to defend myself in court.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

That’s all you need. It’s otherwise a very well written disruption message and an example to anyone else wanting to write one.

Are the rails made of ice cream over there or something? Looking at the weather it's only 26. Down here at that temperature trains still run at full speed. Trains only start being restricted when the temperature hits 36.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Are the rails made of ice cream over there or something? Looking at the weather it's only 26. Down here at that temperature trains still run at full speed. Trains only start being restricted when the temperature hits 36.

I read somewhere recently that the rails are up to 20°c hotter than the outside temperature in direct sunlight.

 

[AM9]

Not so long ago there were people on here moaning about the railways being too cryptic with delay reasons. Now, the railway makes it understandable to 99% of people and are accused of dumbing it down.....cant win really.

I suppose it's inevitable that some posters on a rail enthusiast's forum might feel that not broadcasting detailed technical reasons for delays to passengers is wrong, - after all they themselves would understand fully what was going on. How unreasonable for the announcements to treat the travelling public as er... just the travelling public!

 

[AM9]

Are the rails made of ice cream over there or something? Looking at the weather it's only 26. Down here at that temperature trains still run at full speed. Trains only start being restricted when the temperature hits 36.

And what is the lowest temperature that the rails are designed for?

 

[physics34]

im afraid alot of passengers are idiots...but also some do get concerned when a train just stops in the middle on nowhere.

Dont forget the elderly, or woman in an empty coach late at night for example.

 

[PeterC]

I read somewhere recently that the rails are up to 20°c hotter than the outside temperature in direct sunlight.

I put my hand on a metal outdoor storage cabinet this morrning. It **** hurt so that figure sounds reasonable to me!

 

[6Gman]

im afraid alot of passengers are idiots...but also some do get concerned when a train just stops in the middle on nowhere.

"Guard, why has the train stopped suddenly?"
"The train has hit a cow."
"Oh. Was it on the track?"
"No, we had to chase it across three fields but we got the bugger in the end."


(I'll get my coat.)

 

[ComUtoR]

I remember 2 or 3 minutes being given as best practice, it was the reason for having the plate so are they provided on new installations?

Very old timings (detention of trains) :

2 minutes outside 'London Area'
5 minutes inside 'London Area'
'Unusually long time but no more than 10 minutes' for an IBH

You can get a plate with a number on and that is the wait time before you should contact the Signaler. They can be zero plated so you must contact immediately. You used to be able to pass an automatic on your own authority but it had various caveats. Eg. you were never allowed to pass an auto if it protected tunnel. Tomnick Is correct that it was all about communication and you had to 'exhaust all forms of communication' before passing anything. If I'm honest it was stupidly complicated and hard to remember. Now it's basically pass nothing (except an IBH)

On topic.. Even when I am passing on a train (even in my personal time) when it stops, my ears prick up and start thinking of why we are stopped. Especially if its in a weird place. The guidance we are given is to make an announcement when you come to a stand to state you are waiting the signal. Passengers really do have a bit of a panic when the train stops. There are a few 'Red Alert' videos about it too.

Being Metro based I Stop at Reds pretty much every day. I always make an announcement. The advice from NR is sensible advice.

 

[whhistle]

The damn traffic lights I got stuck at had those light sensors on them to detect when a car pulled up...

because I was on a motorbike, it wouldn't/couldn't detect my headlamp...

I ended up having to turn back up the road and ride towards the traffic lights a few times with the headlamp on full beam and it still didn't work.

Do you mean these sorts of sensors:

Those sensors detect movement, or rather the presence of a vehicle. People who "flash" at lights do so for nothing.

No traffic lights have light sensors, and your experience has proved this. Many sensors are in the ground. That's why you sometimes see large things like this:

I find it amusing when people flash at lights like this:

I mean... where is the sensor you think "sees" light? And what happens in the day? Or if sunlight hits the traffic light? Or are they supposedly part-time sensors? :P

Similarly, many crossings don't require pedestrians to push the button either. At certain junctions, the traffic lights will automatically allow pedestrians to cross when the traffic is stopped. Some junctions require a button to be pushed to insert a "pedestrian crossing" function into the cycle.

However, at a Pelican (or the newer Puffin) crossing (Click for image) you need to push the button to activate the lights.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Many sensors are in the ground. That's why you sometimes see large things like this:

Now those things are really no good at detecting motorbikes! I once had the misfortune to be behind a single motorbike on a right turn junction fitted with those; I ended up sitting through four cycles of the lights before the motorcyclist inched forwards slightly just enough for me to creep forwards and put the engine mass over the sensors!

This one: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3...4!1sXYpGRLEHUu-eO_eIcqDM4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Mag_seven]

Many sensors are in the ground. That's why you sometimes see large things like this:

I believe these are called "induction loops".

 

[jimbo99]

Does NR Enquiries Think Passengers Are Idiots?

I'm sure passengers think the railway industry is run by idiots !

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

And what is the lowest temperature that the rails are designed for?

Depending on what part of the country anywhere from -5c to +20c with the minimum rail temperature expected to get somewhere from -12c to +12c.
On hot days the expect the rail to get anywhere +58/60c

 

[Loop & Link]

It’s worth mentioning that these Tyrell/JourneyCheck messages don’t just go to TOC websites, NRE for example.

They can also be setup to go to local media outlets, radio stations, newspapers, so simple, plain, non-jargon language is essential.

Any information for eg: a track circuit failure that requires detailed technical information, can be put in the ‘Interal Information’ which can go to TOC staff only.

The perfect setup will always be for quality messages:

The Problem:

The Impact:

The advice for our customers:

Additional Information:

We are monitored heavily on the quality/frequency of Tyrell/JourneyCheck messages and this is reflected in the PIDD report.

 

[Rail Blues]

I would rather have something I already know explained to me than have other people left in the dark. We all have a varying level of knowledge on a given topic and to take a completely unobjectionable notice as a personal insult does seem a trifle thin skinned.

 

[jon0844]

It took years for people to understand about leaves on the line. Many are still convinced it's a joke.

I think it has still not sunk in about the impact of snow.

I have no idea if anyone would ever believe that hot weather can have an impact, because - hey - trains run in hot countries. They won't care about tensioning and adjustments for different climates or anything like that, they'll just call BS and say the railway has no idea and they could do it so much better if they were in charge.

So there seems little point in giving lots of detail. Far too many people are convinced it's all a conspiracy.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There seems little point in giving lots of detail. Far too many people are convinced it's all a conspiracy.

Of course it is a conspiracy, I know the railways know when they are going to have a bad day, so they deliberately arrange for it to snow so that that they can blame that. Why no one thinks to use all those spare trains in Box Tunnel I don't know.