Does LU have a problem accepting cash at present or is this a trial?

[bakerstreet]

Just enclosing some images from a tube station ticket hall I passed through today.

For clarity, there are three machines, two small, which usually accept coins and cards but no notes, one large which usually accepts notes, coins and cards.

All now have signs suggesting that - until further notice - no cash (coins or notes) will be accepted by any of them.

The repeated pictures show the different dot matrix display aspects.

So, does LU have a problem accepting cash at present or is this a trial?

 

[Hadders]

Which station is this? Previously I believe cash has not been accepted at stations when refurbishment work has been happening and works are taking place in the secure area where cash is sorted and counted.

 

[Mojo]

From the tiles it looks like Hendon Central.

 

[43066]

From the tiles it looks like Hendon Central.

Blimey, that’s impressive knowledge!

 

[Daniel]

Nothing as sinister as a cashless trial going on here; there’s an issue with the room behind the machines.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I think there have always been one or two stations where the machines don't take cash (inc Southwark?). But in general I've not had problems with cash top-ups - apart from odd occasions at a small station with few machines and one is out of order.

I think there was publicity a few years back about withdrawing the cash payment facility, but it never came to anything.

 

[bakerstreet]

From the tiles it looks like Hendon Central.

Yes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 May 2024 ==

Nothing as sinister as a cashless trial going on here; there’s an issue with the room behind the machines.

Thanks for this.

 

[jon81uk]

I think there have always been one or two stations where the machines don't take cash (inc Southwark?). But in general I've not had problems with cash top-ups - apart from odd occasions at a small station with few machines and one is out of order.

I think there was publicity a few years back about withdrawing the cash payment facility, but it never came to anything.

Canary Wharf removed the ticket machines that were on a wall and replaced them with more shops, the new machines in the centre of the concourse don't take cash. I think its one of the only LU station to permanently not take cash.

 

[zero]

Canary Wharf removed the ticket machines that were on a wall and replaced them with more shops, the new machines in the centre of the concourse don't take cash. I think its one of the only LU station to permanently not take cash.

Do the machines in the DLR part of the station still take cash?

 

[jon81uk]

Do the machines in the DLR part of the station still take cash?

To my knowledge they do (but I moved out of that area four years ago).

I would assume the design of the DLR machines and the way cash is collected and handled is set up very differently to LU given the DLR stations are generally unstaffed.

 

[Mojo]

I would assume the design of the DLR machines and the way cash is collected and handled is set up very differently to LU given the DLR stations are generally unstaffed.

This could be down to the fact that for some years LUL staff didn’t handle cash from ticket machines in public areas. Since the Underground Ticketing System was introduced in the late 1980s, London Underground passenger-operated machines were always serviced from the rear, within either the ticket office suite or other secure room (the notable exception being the queuebuster machines which appeared later but didn’t accept cash so only needed topping up with paper rolls).

It was only later, when LUL took over the ex-Silverlink stations that front-loading machines became a thing, with LUL inheriting S&B TVMs from the former Toc. Subsequent to that, TfL has more recently developed and introduced TVMs which are freestanding and thus serviced from within the public area of the station. The majority of these are card only but some cash ones do exist.

 

[Thirteen]

Canary Wharf removed the ticket machines that were on a wall and replaced them with more shops, the new machines in the centre of the concourse don't take cash. I think its one of the only LU station to permanently not take cash.

Canary Wharf's customers is more likely to have card only than cash only so it makes sense.

I wonder when TfL will have contactless payments for top ups? Unless it's a deliberate thing to encourage people to use their bank card.

 

[jon81uk]

Canary Wharf's customers is more likely to have card only than cash only so it makes sense.

I wonder when TfL will have contactless payments for top ups? Unless it's a deliberate thing to encourage people to use their bank card.

I expect it is a deliberate thing as contactless can just be used at the barrier. Why go to the expense of adding contactless card readers to the ticket machines when a tap on the gateline works.

 

[starlight73]

I think there have always been one or two stations where the machines don't take cash (inc Southwark?)

Yes, Southwark is currently not accepting cash due to building works (at least 2 years from Sep 2023) - source: MyLondon.news

 

[Edvid]

Why go to the expense of adding contactless card readers to the ticket machines when a tap on the gateline works.

As it happens the existing Pin Entry Devices are to be removed (possibly starting in about 6 months or so) and TfL/Cubic are currently investigating how to integrate their preferred replacements (which will have contactless functionality) with the ticket machines.

Details are on page 16 of TRU150.

 

[PeterC]

I expect it is a deliberate thing as contactless can just be used at the barrier. Why go to the expense of adding contactless card readers to the ticket machines when a tap on the gateline works.

But people travelling to stops outside the contactless area will still expect to pay by card so you still need the reader on the machine.

 

[oliverpckehoe]

I expect it is a deliberate thing as contactless can just be used at the barrier. Why go to the expense of adding contactless card readers to the ticket machines when a tap on the gateline works.

People with discounts (I have a student oyster with my 16-25 railcard applied) can't simply tap in/out with contactless else we'd be charged the full fare. Being able to top up using Apple Pay instead of digging for my physical bank card (oyster mostly lives in my phone case) would be a minor but noticeable improvement for me, though I can appreciate my situation only applies to a tiny proportion of customers.

 

[jon81uk]

But people travelling to stops outside the contactless area will still expect to pay by card so you still need the reader on the machine.

If they have the physical card they can use the chip and PIN device. There was still no need for TfL to spend thousands of pounds adding contactless readers to the existing ticket machines, when the chip and PIN devices function just fine. As above, now they are reaching end of life its possible the new chip and PIN device will add contactless, but the reason to spend the cash is to replace the aged devices, not because adding contactless will help the tiny number of people who want to use Apple Pay at a machine.

 

[transportphoto]

People with discounts (I have a student oyster with my 16-25 railcard applied) can't simply tap in/out with contactless else we'd be charged the full fare. Being able to top up using Apple Pay instead of digging for my physical bank card (oyster mostly lives in my phone case) would be a minor but noticeable improvement for me, though I can appreciate my situation only applies to a tiny proportion of customers.

To play devils advocate, it’s even more convenient to top up your Oyster card using an app on your phone.

 

[Hadders]

If they have the physical card they can use the chip and PIN device. There was still no need for TfL to spend thousands of pounds adding contactless readers to the existing ticket machines, when the chip and PIN devices function just fine. As above, now they are reaching end of life its possible the new chip and PIN device will add contactless, but the reason to spend the cash is to replace the aged devices, not because adding contactless will help the tiny number of people who want to use Apple Pay at a machine.

I think it would've been a requirement from the banks to install contactless readers on ticket machines. I can't think of a single retailer, anywhere, that is chip and pin only these days.

 

[Gaelan]

To play devils advocate, it’s even more convenient to top up your Oyster card using an app on your phone.

I believe this still occurs on a delay, so is useless if a passenger intends to travel immediately.

 

[zero]

If they have the physical card they can use the chip and PIN device.

Some banks from outside Europe still issue cards which don't do PIN for purchases but can do contactless.

 

[Snow1964]

Some banks from outside Europe still issue cards which don't do PIN for purchases but can do contactless.

And generally children's accounts in UK have cards which won't do contactless (because of Finance laws regarding not giving credit to minors, and as contactless not always checked, avoids any possible overdrawn)

 

[stuu]

And generally children's accounts in UK have cards which won't do contactless (because of Finance laws regarding not giving credit to minors, and as contactless not always checked, avoids any possible overdrawn)

That may have been correct in the past but it certainly isn't now - kids accounts generally come with a contactless card, my son has had one since he was 9

 

[jon81uk]

Some banks from outside Europe still issue cards which don't do PIN for purchases but can do contactless.

How did they work before contactless was widely available?

The Underground ticket machines haven't changed much in 20 years since chip & PIN started. Contactless has only been widely available for about ten years.

 

[zero]

How did they work before contactless was widely available?

The Underground ticket machines haven't changed much in 20 years since chip & PIN started. Contactless has only been widely available for about ten years.

They are chip & sign, or previously swipe and sign

 

[jon81uk]

They are chip & sign, or previously swipe and sign

I would assume then that in the current LU machines the swipe still works, same as it would have done with those cards that are swipe and sign before contactless.

 

[Dent]

I would assume then that in the current LU machines the swipe still works, same as it would have done with those cards that are swipe and sign before contactless.

How would the machine accept and verify the signature?

In any case this is not the only reason contactless is needed, there is also the issue of customers using mobile payment apps.

 

[jon81uk]

How would the machine accept and verify the signature?

They didn't, there was several machines and similar that you just swiped and that was it.

 

[Belperpete]

People with discounts (I have a student oyster with my 16-25 railcard applied) can't simply tap in/out with contactless else we'd be charged the full fare. Being able to top up using Apple Pay instead of digging for my physical bank card (oyster mostly lives in my phone case) would be a minor but noticeable improvement for me, though I can appreciate my situation only applies to a tiny proportion of customers.

Why not just set up automatic top up, then you would never need to bother.