Does Having a Small Child Entitle You to Privileges?

[whhistle]

I understand about supermarket parking, but there is a more specific example I witnessed recently.

There is a toilet at this station but it's use is controlled and must be opened/closed by staff. There is only one member of staff at the station.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The ticket seller was in the middle of a transaction, near the end as they were repeating the ticket details back to an elderly customer.
A guy bursts into the room holding a child (about 4 years old) and asks if the ticket seller has a toilet on the station.
The ticket seller asks for one moment while they finish serving the elderly customer.

The guy walks off, but comes back no more than 10 seconds later and asks the same question.
The ticket seller says "yes, but I'm just finishing with this customer".
The guy replies "Oh, I just thought there'd be some consideration as I have a small child".
The ticket seller says "But I need to concentrate on this customer first as if I make a mistake, [the elderly customer] could be out of pocket by hundreds".

The guy didn't reply.
After the transaction was complete, the ticket seller showed the guy and his child the toilet area.
---------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not entirely sure who was right in this situation.

I'm inclined to agree with the ticket seller because of the circumstances of the toilet being locked. While the guy and child customer may not have known the circumstances until after the elderly customer had been served, does that show rudeness from them? Or just an inept / selfishness for other customers?

I'm thinking that just because you have a small child, even though they may need the toilet, that doesn't mean you should be able to/are entitled to effectively push in front. Maybe the elderly gentleman had a wife at home who he couldn't leave for too long so needed to be quick himself?
Or should the ticket seller have taken the guy and his child to the toilet straight away?

It should be noted I don't think the guy customer bought any tickets/left the station after using the facilities so they were lucky to be allowed to use the toilet anyway. To be fair on him, he did come back and say thank you though... perhaps a little sheepish.

Any opinions?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Sounds like the ticket seller was being perfectly reasonable, and had the man with the child been a bit more patient he'd probably have been the next person dealt with (as indeed he was). I'm sure it's stressful having a small child that needs the loo, but just because your world revolves around your kid doesn't mean everyone else's does too.

As you say, the man came back sheepishly, probably having reflected on how he appeared to everyone else. We're all capable of over-reaction and embarrassing ourselves!

 

[GB]

Unless its a medical emergency then finish with what you are in the middle of dealing with. Having a child does not warrant pushy behavior.

 

[greyman42]

Simple answer to your question; no it does not.

 

[AM9]

Having children is a lifestyle choice. Any expectation of privilege is just another self-entitlement that seems to be prevelant in recent years. Fortunately, not everybody is prepared to kowtow to those who make the most noise about their priorities.
For the record, I have brought up two children in my younger days, and being without a car, public transport was my/our only available method of travel other than on foot. Somehow both my children made it into adulthood.

 

[WelshBluebird]

No it doesn't, but at the same time some common sense has to be used depending on the situation. Is the child about to make a mess everywhere because they do not have the same ability to hold / plan toilet breaks as most adults do? If so then the member of staff is probably better off pausing whatever they are doing and opening the toilet than having to clean up a stinky mess afterwards.

There is a toilet at this station but it's use is controlled and must be opened/closed by staff.

Isn't that the real problem here?
Speaking has someone who sometimes has bouts of IBS where I simply NEED the toilet right there and then, we as a society have become utterly useless in the provision of public toilets (be that public toilets run by the council, or toilets provided for customers / passengers by businesses). It really is a disgrace in some areas.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Having a child does not warrant pushy behavior.

Four year olds can't control their bowels and bladder in the same way adults can.

It's not pushy behaviour, it's knowing that your kid will pee all over the floor if you don't get that door unlocked within 30 seconds.

I'm sure the ticket office staff would much rather attend to the toilet than have to mop up a puddle of pee.

 

[Tetchytyke]

For the record, I have brought up two children in my younger days, and being without a car, public transport was my/our only available method of travel other than on foot.

And I'm equally sure you spent plenty of time helping your child have a wee behind a bush or a wall because they decide to tell you they need a wee when they're bursting.

It also doesn't help that more and more station toilets are locked up at all times. I understand why they are, but if a kid's gotta go a kid's gotta go.

 

[EssexGonzo]

Having children is a lifestyle choice. Any expectation of privilege is just another self-entitlement that seems to be prevelant in recent years. Fortunately, not everybody is prepared to kowtow to those who make the most noise about their priorities.
For the record, I have brought up two children in my younger days, and being without a car, public transport was my/our only available method of travel other than on foot. Somehow both my children made it into adulthood.

In the real world, a little help when you're travelling with young kids is always welcomed when offered by warm hearted human beings. And companies often encourage their staff do help, or have policies offering help, as looked-after young kids are often less disruptive to other passengers than distressed young kids.

But maybe the parent sounded a little pushy here. And the kids are a red herring - if you're pushy when your kids are with you, you're probably pushy when they're not with you. This adult may well have done exactly the same thing when on their own.

 

[Sebastian O]

His retort of ‘I thought there would be some consideration for’ is yet more evidence of a self centred and selfish society. It’s all about me me me, my rights, and completely ignoring ones responsibilities in life.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s all about me me me, my rights, and completely ignoring ones responsibilities in life.

Hmm.

"I don't want my kid to p!ss themselves" is hardly the epitome of selfishness, is it?

And if the bloke had waited politely, and the kid had left a puddle in the ticket hall, you lot would have been wailing about how inconsiderate he was to not push the queue.

 

[Darandio]

It’s all about me me me, my rights, and completely ignoring ones responsibilities in life.

Like the responsibility of getting his child to the toilet before there is a mess all over the floor?

I suspect that this thread will be like all of the other related ones, 90% of contributors without children telling parents how they should be doing it.

 

[Sebastian O]

Hmm.

"I don't want my kid to p!ss themselves" is hardly the epitome of selfishness, is it?

And if the bloke had waited politely, and the kid had left a puddle in the ticket hall, you lot would have been wailing about how inconsiderate he was to not push the queue.

That’s implying that it was the small child that needed the toilet. Wasn’t stated by OP.

Why could he not have waited a short time for the transaction to complete?

The argument about why toilets are locked is another argument and quite frankly a stupid decision - ‘vandalism’ is not a good enough excuse to lock them when the station is staffed!

 

[bramling]

I understand about supermarket parking, but there is a more specific example I witnessed recently.

There is a toilet at this station but it's use is controlled and must be opened/closed by staff. There is only one member of staff at the station.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The ticket seller was in the middle of a transaction, near the end as they were repeating the ticket details back to an elderly customer.
A guy bursts into the room holding a child (about 4 years old) and asks if the ticket seller has a toilet on the station.
The ticket seller asks for one moment while they finish serving the elderly customer.

The guy walks off, but comes back no more than 10 seconds later and asks the same question.
The ticket seller says "yes, but I'm just finishing with this customer".
The guy replies "Oh, I just thought there'd be some consideration as I have a small child".
The ticket seller says "But I need to concentrate on this customer first as if I make a mistake, [the elderly customer] could be out of pocket by hundreds".

The guy didn't reply.
After the transaction was complete, the ticket seller showed the guy and his child the toilet area.
---------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not entirely sure who was right in this situation.

I'm inclined to agree with the ticket seller because of the circumstances of the toilet being locked. While the guy and child customer may not have known the circumstances until after the elderly customer had been served, does that show rudeness from them? Or just an inept / selfishness for other customers?

I'm thinking that just because you have a small child, even though they may need the toilet, that doesn't mean you should be able to/are entitled to effectively push in front. Maybe the elderly gentleman had a wife at home who he couldn't leave for too long so needed to be quick himself?
Or should the ticket seller have taken the guy and his child to the toilet straight away?

It should be noted I don't think the guy customer bought any tickets/left the station after using the facilities so they were lucky to be allowed to use the toilet anyway. To be fair on him, he did come back and say thank you though... perhaps a little sheepish.

Any opinions?

Depends on how the person approached the situation. It does sound like bad attitude, but without being there it’s hard to say.

 

[AM9]

And I'm equally sure you spent plenty of time helping your child have a wee behind a bush or a wall because they decide to tell you they need a wee when they're bursting.

It also doesn't help that more and more station toilets are locked up at all times. I understand why they are, but if a kid's gotta go a kid's gotta go.

I honestly don't remember a single time where either of them were caught like that and am sure that neither of us went to demand priority use of facilities for our children, or having to use a bush or wall, (with exception of somewhere like in some woods of discreetly on a beach), - both places where it wouldn't have created any real incovenience to others.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why could he not have waited a short time for the transaction to complete?

My experience with my daughter at that age is that she'd sometimes decide to tell me she really needed a wee about four seconds before it started dribbling down her leg.

Parents with recent experience will understand.

 

[Busaholic]

Please don't forget that these 'emergencies' occur at both ends of the life cycle, as I'm only too aware myself!

 

[mmh]

Being cynical, I'm afraid I don't believe the original post is an accurate description of something that happened, for two reasons.

But I need to concentrate on this customer first as if I make a mistake, [the elderly customer] could be out of pocket by hundreds"

I can't picture anybody saying that rather than "sorry, I'll help you after I finish serving this customer". Nobody is going to say they'll make a mistake.

Second reason, why say "this station" rather than where it was?

Plenty of parents have remarkably annoying self-importance, but this doesn't ring true to me, sorry.

 

[ComUtoR]

Parents with recent experience will understand.

My daughter, who is 11, will be in the car, sitting nicely and quietly. Then the second we park the car she will 'suddenly' demand the loo and that she is 'busting' que the pee pee dance as we come into the house and a rush through the door. On a personal note. I am prone to get a sudden urge for the loo. Literally nothing to instant need in a matter of seconds.

I think people can be very self righteous at times and forget the need of others. This forum often goes from one extreme to another. We have comments that say a child should be able to hold it in for 4/5 hours like an adult does and then say that waiting 45 minutes without access to a toilet is unacceptable :/

As a parent, I too get a little self righteous and forget the needs of others. If my 4yr old needed the loo I would be looking around for a loo to the point in which nothing else mattered. I would, and did, forget my manners and butt in a conversation because all I want is a quick 'its over there' response. I suspect that the guy returning and thanking the Ticket seller was because he knew he was a little rude and genuinely grateful his kid got to use the loo.

Personally I think the staff member handled it badly.

 

[GB]

Personally I think the staff member handled it badly.

How on earth did the staff member handle it badly? They were in the middle of a transaction and stated they would be right with the parent after just finishing it off. You expect the staff member to just drop everything and lock up the ticket office?

 

[greyman42]

My daughter, who is 11, will be in the car, sitting nicely and quietly. Then the second we park the car she will 'suddenly' demand the loo and that she is 'busting' que the pee pee dance as we come into the house and a rush through the door. On a personal note. I am prone to get a sudden urge for the loo. Literally nothing to instant need in a matter of seconds.

I think people can be very self righteous at times and forget the need of others. This forum often goes from one extreme to another. We have comments that say a child should be able to hold it in for 4/5 hours like an adult does and then say that waiting 45 minutes without access to a toilet is unacceptable :/

As a parent, I too get a little self righteous and forget the needs of others. If my 4yr old needed the loo I would be looking around for a loo to the point in which nothing else mattered. I would, and did, forget my manners and butt in a conversation because all I want is a quick 'its over there' response. I suspect that the guy returning and thanking the Ticket seller was because he knew he was a little rude and genuinely grateful his kid got to use the loo.

Personally I think the staff member handled it badly.

I have a job holding it for 4/5 minutes, never mind hours.

 

[ComUtoR]

How on earth did the staff member handle it badly?

Because I think that this comment is unwarranted and deliberately sarcastic.

The ticket seller says "But I need to concentrate on this customer first as if I make a mistake, [the elderly customer] could be out of pocket by hundreds".

The Ticket seller spoke to the person twice and could have easily stated that the toilet was locked and needed someone to unlock it. I also think that the first comment was dismissive. The person left, then came back. That shows they were still unsure and needed further clarification. Just saying 'yes' resolves nothing and just defers matters. It's very dismissive. I suspect the Ticket seller didn't like the interruption.

Something like 'Yes we do, it needs a member of staff to unlock it and I will just finish with this customer and help you in a minute' (then apologizing to your customer) Would have been a better and more helpful response. It's very easy to present a 'customer service' response whilst still being obstructive and sarcastic. Anyone who has worked, or works in customer service of any style can do it. It's like a comment in another thread where the passenger asked 'York ?' but the staff member replies 'no, I'm Bob'

You expect the staff member to just drop everything and lock up the ticket office?

Not in the slightest. They should deal with the person in hand but be mindful of how they treat the interrupting person.

'Do you have a toilet'
'yes'

It's the wrong answer. We all know the customer is asking if they can use the toilet and where is it. It's a deliberate way to actually avoid answering the customer, still being polite, but getting one over on them because they didn't ask correctly.

 

[mmh]

The OP seems to have a habit of hearing peculiar things on the railway. From a post from last week:

I've experienced cancelled services because the driver wasn't allowed to wear his union tie.

I've made my mind up whether or not I believe this story.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

my thoughts on this discussion...

the OP seems to know the situation at "this" station... so, if he was there and overheard the conversation, why didn't he explain to the obviously harrassed parent what the problem was... ie that the staff member had to go and unlock them and couldn't just go in the middle of dealing with a customer....

 

[Busaholic]

A century and a half after Sir William Bazalgette's fantastic endeavours that brought us (well, London initially) the basis of our modern sewage system I fear we are going backwards, with public loos being closed all over the shop and it being regarded as a 'privilege' both to find one then to actually gain access. Bazalgette was a railway engineer at first, so it would be fascinating to hear his opinions on the direction of travel on both fronts were it possible to resuscitate him.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

A century and a half after Sir William Bazalgette's fantastic endeavours that brought us (well, London initially) the basis of our modern sewage system I fear we are going backwards, with public loos being closed all over the shop and it being regarded as a 'privilege' both to find one then to actually gain access. Bazalgette was a railway engineer at first, so it would be fascinating to hear his opinions on the direction of travel on both fronts were it possible to resuscitate him.

having seen the state that some of my fellow "humans" leave public facilities, is it surprising that so many of them are being closed?

 

[Busaholic]

having seen the state that some of my fellow "humans" leave public facilities, is it surprising that so many of them are being closed?

Is that the only answer, though? In many European countries there are attendants, which cost of course but their 'tips' help out. Because some people regularly drive too fast, should everyone be restricted to 30 mph on every road in the country? Sometimes, it's just 'take the easy option and s*d the public.'

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Is that the only answer, though? In many European countries there are attendants, which cost of course but their 'tips' help out. Because some people regularly drive too fast, should everyone be restricted to 30 mph on every road in the country? Sometimes, it's just 'take the easy option and s*d the public.'

I don't think it's just a case of providing attendants though... I've used public conveniences that are attended and are still totally trashed...

the problem is that in this country "public" facility means "not my responsibility" and it's not just toilets... one only has to look at the state of floors on British trains/ buses compared to the continent... or for that matter watch how people behave in a fast food restaurant... drop a few chips on the floor? who cares... burger goes splat? leave it there... wind blows empty carton onto floor? too much effort to bend down and pick it up...

seriously do people really live like that at home? in the vast majority of cases.. no... but it's a public facility so why should they THE PUBLIC do anything to keep it clean and tidy?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A century and a half after Sir William Bazalgette's fantastic endeavours that brought us (well, London initially) the basis of our modern sewage system I fear we are going backwards, with public loos being closed all over the shop and it being regarded as a 'privilege' both to find one then to actually gain access. Bazalgette was a railway engineer at first, so it would be fascinating to hear his opinions on the direction of travel on both fronts were it possible to resuscitate him.

I absolutely agree. Having just spent 2 and a half weeks in China, in the cities there is a public toilet about every 100 yards, with no fee, and most of them are now (despite the reputation) in pretty clean condition (they are squats rather than Western style, though, but that's just what they prefer over there). The UK's provision is embarrassingly bad and in my view now so bad it amounts to disability discrimination.

 

[whhistle]

But maybe the parent sounded a little pushy here. And the kids are a red herring - if you're pushy when your kids are with you, you're probably pushy when they're not with you. This adult may well have done exactly the same thing when on their own.

That's quite wise.
Didn't think of it from this angle.
*like*

Being cynical, I'm afraid I don't believe the original post is an accurate description of something that happened.

Fairly accurate.
But decided to change some points slightly to stop internetz stalkerz and all that.

the OP seems to know the situation at "this" station... so, if he was there and overheard the conversation, why didn't he explain to the obviously harrassed parent what the problem was.

A good question.
I've passed through a few times before so know the score but elected not to get involved as I'm a little anti-social and prefer to keep myself to myself sometimes.