Does evening peak fare apply for travel entirely within Zone 1?

[frankmoh]

Like London Bridge to Cannon Street during the evening peak.

 

[Watershed]

If using PAYG, yes: peak fares are charged if you touch in between 16:00 and 19:00 at the start of your journey. That includes journeys entirely within Zone 1. There are two main exceptions:

1. If your journey starts outside Zone 1, and your destination is in Zone 1 you will be charged an off-peak PAYG fare. This is intended to encourage people to head into London in a generally 'contra peak' direction for evenings out etc. - but it does mean that it can be cheaper to start your journey outside Zone 1 (e.g. Bermondsey vs London Bridge).
2. If your journey is entirely on the Euston to Watford Junction 'DC' line, you will be charged an off-peak PAYG for contra-peak journeys (heading towards Euston) even if your destination isn't in Zone 1.

Any intermediate transfers don't count, so if you start your journey at Canada Water at 15:50 and transfer to National Rail at London Bridge at 16:10, you would still be charged an off-peak PAYG fare. Conversely, if you started your journey at 18:50 and then transferred at 19:10, you would still be charged a peak PAYG fare.

Off-peak daily caps apply all day from 09:30 onwards, so an evening peak fare will count towards this. Depending on your travel history that day, it might mean you don't pay the full evening peak fare.

 

[frankmoh]

If using PAYG, yes: peak fares are charged if you touch in between 16:00 and 19:00 at the start of your journey. That includes journeys entirely within Zone 1. There are two main exceptions:

1. If your journey starts outside Zone 1, and your destination is in Zone 1 you will be charged an off-peak PAYG fare. This is intended to encourage people to head into London in a generally 'contra peak' direction for evenings out etc. - but it does mean that it can be cheaper to start your journey outside Zone 1 (e.g. Bermondsey vs London Bridge).
2. If your journey is entirely on the Euston to Watford Junction 'DC' line, you will be charged an off-peak PAYG for contra-peak journeys (heading towards Euston) even if your destination isn't in Zone 1.

Any intermediate transfers don't count, so if you start your journey at Canada Water at 15:50 and transfer to National Rail at London Bridge at 16:10, you would still be charged an off-peak PAYG fare. Conversely, if you started your journey at 18:50 and then transferred at 19:10, you would still be charged a peak PAYG fare.

Off-peak daily caps apply all day from 09:30 onwards, so an evening peak fare will count towards this. Depending on your travel history that day, it might mean you don't pay the full evening peak fare.

Thank you for the quick response.

I assume that lots of people are changing around stations at this time so it still counts as being "with the flow"?

Like someone might work in the City but their train home is from Victoria, so they go on the Circle line to get there.

 

[MikeWh]

I assume that lots of people are changing around stations at this time so it still counts as being "with the flow"?

Like someone might work in the City but their train home is from Victoria, so they go on the Circle line to get there.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. PAYG fares are charged for the whole journey by rail, regardless of how many bits are involved, as long as timely interchanges are made where appropriate.

 

[frankmoh]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. PAYG fares are charged for the whole journey by rail, regardless of how many bits are involved, as long as timely interchanges are made where appropriate.

I meant to say that the journey would be via the Circle Line and then this hypothetical commuter would go home via National Rail.

 

[MikeWh]

I meant to say that the journey would be via the Circle Line and then this hypothetical commuter would go home via National Rail.

OK, let's take an actual example. An evening peak journey from Bank to Surbiton can be made in a number of ways.

• Bank - Waterloo - Surbiton is £10.40
• Bank - Stockwell - Vauxhall - Surbiton is £8.40
• Bank - Waterloo (wait 45 minutes) - Surbiton is £2.90 + £8.50 = £11.40

The second option takes advantage of the special pricing available when the Underground journey is wholly* in zone 1 and the National Rail journey is wholly outside zone 1. The third option shows what happens when you let the automatic joining of journeys fail by taking too long. There are hundreds of these out-of-station interchanges throughout London and they are all timed to allow genuine connections to be made without worry.

*I know Stockwell is in zone 2, but you don't touch there and the system assumes you've stayed within zone 1, maybe via Oxford Circus.

 

[frankmoh]

• Bank - Waterloo (wait 45 minutes) - Surbiton is £2.90 + £8.50 = £11.40

The second option takes advantage of the special pricing available when the Underground journey is wholly* in zone 1 and the National Rail journey is wholly outside zone 1. The third option shows what happens when you let the automatic joining of journeys fail by taking too long. There are hundreds of these out-of-station interchanges throughout London and they are all timed to allow genuine connections to be made without worry.

The LU and SWR gatelines at Waterloo are different though? Unless you mean not tapping at the un-gated validator by the W&C line?

 

[MikeWh]

The LU and SWR gatelines at Waterloo are different though? Unless you mean not tapping at the un-gated validator by the W&C line?

Yes, there is a system which joins together bits of journeys into one providing you don't exceed the maximum interchange time. It's all explained on my website. In the specific case of changing from LU to NR at Waterloo you need to touch in at Waterloo NR within 40 minutes of touching out at Waterloo LU. This caters for the fact that you may have to wait on the concourse for your train to be platformed before touching in.