Does Delay Repay apply when the delay is known about already at ticket purchase?

[Bletchleyite]

But anyway that's not the important bit - the question is whether I'm denied Delay Repay for the second scenario because I didn't have a contract for the second part until I knew it was delayed.

This is a wider question - does DR apply when you know about the delay when you purchase the ticket (that it's the second part of a multi-ticket journey where the first part was already delayed doesn't I think really affect the answer). I don't think there has been consensus on this in the past nor is it (if I recall) clear in the rules.

I have been paid Delay Repay in this circumstance, but it's far from clear whether I should have been.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I was under the impression that the idea of the “published timetable of the day” nonsense had been done away with, after Northern were so roundly criticised for taking the pee with it. If temporary timetables or engineering works are in place then yes, but otherwise no.

Certainly I’ve had Delay Repay paid quite recently from Northern for one of their regular Sunday disasters. Ticket not bought in advance, bought at the station, 100% repaid due to the cancellations in the north west.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was under the impression that the idea of the “published timetable of the day” nonsense had been done away with, after Northern were so roundly criticised for taking the pee with it. If temporary timetables or engineering works are in place then yes, but otherwise no.

Certainly I’ve had Delay Repay paid quite recently from Northern for one of their regular Sunday disasters. Ticket not bought in advance, bought at the station, 100% repaid due to the cancellations in the north west.

There has been a reduction in the use of P-coding ("due to a late notice change to the timetable") for cancellations which are really due to staffing issues, which is probably what led to the outcome you mention.

 

[AM9]

This is a wider question - does DR apply when you know about the delay when you purchase the ticket (that it's the second part of a multi-ticket journey where the first part was already delayed doesn't I think really affect the answer). I don't think there has been consensus on this in the past nor is it (if I recall) clear in the rules.

I have been paid Delay Repay in this circumstance, but it's far from clear whether I should have been.

Weren't some of those circumstances removed when the 'timetable of the day' was introduced. That leaves delays that occur within the day where unless the ticket issue(1) or the commitment to enter the system(2) was such that the traveller clearly did know of the delay, it would be difficult to the operator to dispute a claim of not knowing.

note 1 If the booking office was notifying buyers of the delay
note 2 If the gateking was informing those entering 'railside'.

 

[MrJeeves]

Yes, in my view. The industry shouldn't penalise people who buy their tickets at the station prior to departure rather than hours or days in advance.

The line is hazy, and I think it really depends on your individual circumstances. Claiming DR after you happen to get an earlier train that was delayed until after you arrive at the station is much more dodgy than just claiming for a delay to a service scheduled to depart after you buy your ticket.

But, saying that, I have also done the former, delaying my journey to the station because of a delay to my train!

 

[AdamWW]

This is a wider question - does DR apply when you know about the delay when you purchase the ticket (that it's the second part of a multi-ticket journey where the first part was already delayed doesn't I think really affect the answer).

Well if the answer is it doesn't matter when you buy the ticket then no it doesn't affect it.

But if the answer is that you do normally need to purchase before being aware of a delay, then I think really should affect the answer if it's part way through a journey.

In the circumstance I gave in the other thread (board with season ticket at a station without ticket facilities and buy a ticket for the next leg after getting off the first train) - why does the passenger with a season ticket lose Delay Repay because by they time they buy their second ticket they've already been delayed whereas the person without a season ticket making the exact same journey does?

Or maybe they should also lose out because they knew about the delay before they had a change to buy a ticket? But that seems equally wrong since they would have got Delay Repay if they'd been able to buy a ticket beforehand.

 

[Dirty_Mac]

Claiming DR after you happen to get an earlier train that was delayed until after you arrive at the station is much more dodgy than just claiming for a delay to a service scheduled to depart after you buy your ticket.

But then, if I happened to catch a train only because it was half an hour delayed (it's the return leg of a day return), it would still be eligible for delay repay. Would that count as dodgy? The only difference is that I had already bought the ticket, but I never would've been at the station on time to catch the train had it departed on time.

 

[Watershed]

It's a bit of a grey zone in my view.

Under the PRO:

The passenger shall not have any right to compensation if he is informed of a delay before he buys a ticket

There isn't an equivalent limitation in the NRCoT, however some operators do include them in their Passenger Charters. For example LNER's Charter says:

If there are delays and cancellations we will always try to tell you before you buy a ticket, so we don’t normally accept claims if you knew there was disruption and still decided to buy a ticket. However, we treat each claim on its merits and will never automatically rule out compensation

Given the lack of an NRCoT limitation you arguably have a right to at least the minimum entitlement under the NRCoT (50% of a single for a 60+ min delay) even if you knew about the delay - since the NRCoT entitlement is a minimum which operators cannot exclude in their Charters.

OTOH, TOCs like LNER which include a limitation in their Charter may argue that their limitation clause purely reflects the de facto legal position, and that it's an implied term of the contract that you can't claim for delays you knew at the time of buying your ticket.

How this interacts with PAYG is very unclear. I've had compensation from GTR and TfL on a number of occasions when using their respective PAYG schemes, despite having touched in after the disruption was already advertised (indeed, after the advertised departure time in some cases). I think it's recognised that with PAYG you don't "buy" a ticket at a specific time but just touch in when you enter the barriers, so it's not really practical to impose such a limitation.

 

[MrJeeves]

How this interacts with PAYG is very unclear. I've had compensation from GTR and TfL on a number of occasions when using their respective PAYG schemes, despite having touched in after the disruption was already advertised (indeed, after the advertised departure time in some cases). I think it's recognised that with PAYG you don't "buy" a ticket at a specific time but just touch in when you enter the barriers, so it's not really practical to impose such a limitation.

Meanwhile, I recall a thread where a smartcard season holder was denied their DR claim multiple times because they didn't touch in to the station before the scheduled service departure time...! Double standards galore, as to be expected in the industry

 

[SuspectUsual]

My experience with Northern has been that if I pitched up at the station and found my regular train was delayed 15+ minutes they’d pay out DR even though I bought my ticket at the station