Does Bob Crow have a clue?

[Tom C]

In my opinion it does matter. It's clear where some people's politics are and how it gets in the way of the way they do business. If it didn't matter then the BBC wouldn't impose terms on how their staff deal with political reporting. [I was going to say and the police ban the BNP, but that's slightly different]

What has the BBC and its reporting on politics got to do with trade unions?.

Your point earlier was about a more having "moderate" trade union and from previous experience of being in another railway union it simply ended up with grades getting a poorer deal. People join trade unions for protection and they choose which union they join based on what they will get back from it. To a lot of union members it is a simple as that.

I am slightly concerned of the growing suspicion of railway management and perhaps it's just me but I appreciate the business side of things (even if it was a state-owned railway) and that I disagree with some of the salary and conditions changes that the unions have demanded.

Growing suspicion?

Are you saying that people shouldn't be wary of the managements next move? Companies like SWT, EMT, SET and National Express are looking to cut the workforces by a substantial amount and Firstgroup has reported the need to cut the workforce (despite them having inbuilt revenue support into the franchises). If you worked in those TOC's wouldn't you be just a little bit suspicious?

 

[winks]

Regarding one of the drivers who was sacked for opening the doors on the wrong side; is it a fact that he covered up this error and was sacked because he tried to cover this up, not that he made a mistake? i.e. If he had been honest about the incident and reported it properly he would have kept his job (perhaps after a reprimand?)

And as for the other driver, is he not facing prosecution for theft? What the hell is the RMT playing at.

.......Oh and Hi to everyone on the forums!

 

[Mojo]

Your point earlier was about a more having "moderate" trade union and from previous experience of being in another railway union it simply ended up with grades getting a poorer deal.

No it wasn't. If you had quoted the whole of what I actually said then I clearly mentioned about political views and not trade relations, which is what you are talking about.

And I do not believe that we should be looking at management with suspision. We don't live in a country with a centrally planned economy where job cuts aren't necessary and if a business has to be more effective then a business has to be more effective and it does that by shedding waste in an attempt not to affect its service.

 

[Tom C]

And I do not believe that we should be looking at management with suspision. We don't live in a country with a centrally planned economy where job cuts aren't necessary and if a business has to be more effective then a business has to be more effective and it does that by shedding waste in an attempt not to affect its service.

Thats the point, in the main the businesses in question are still turning over a good profit but in order to get more and more they slash the workforce which only serves to make the service offered poorer. The railways may be privately operated but it is still a public service and closing points of sale, reducing the number of passenger facing staff and outsourcing work to agencies who provide inadequate staff does nothing but turn people away from using rail services.

Most of the businesses in question already have inbuilt protection against a downturn in "profit" which is nowhere near the stage where the business is making a loss yet they still insist on reducing the workforce.

People who work in any industry rely on their job to keep themselves and their families and to say that people should not be wary about companies making decisions which affect their livelyhood is misguided.

 

[O L Leigh]

The problem here is that we don't know precisely what has happened with these two drivers. However, from the press reports I have read this is only one thread to the dispute, but I won't delve into the other factors here because I don't know enough about them.

However, to take the incident where a driver opened the doors on the wrong side. While I can understand that this is more serious on LUL than on NR because all the doors would have actually opened, the covering up of the mistake by the driver should still not automatically result in dismissal. It certainly makes things more grave if the error is discovered later, but I strongly resist the notion that it should mean that the driver loses his/her job.

As I tried to get across before, a mistake is just that. A mistake. The desire not to be found out is entirely natural and not restricted to the driving grade. No-one likes to feel foolish and so there will always be an element that will not report an incident in the hope that it has gone unnoticed.

However, in this instance I would like to take my customary position of reminding everyone that we are not in possession of the full facts. There could be factors at work here that we are totally ignorant of, such as the driver's record prior to this incident. Likewise the RMT could be right in accusing LUL of acting unreasonably against a driver with a good record. However, without a strong union to fight on his behalf and to provide representation this guy would have had no way of fighting to keep his job.

O L Leigh

 

[Tom B]

The problem here is that we don't know precisely what has happened with these two drivers. However, from the press reports I have read this is only one thread to the dispute, but I won't delve into the other factors here because I don't know enough about them.

And this is where we hit a problem.

The RMT has told its side of the story - what IT considers to be the case. It will naturally attempt to defend the driver.

LUL will have their side of the story, but they probably can't say very much about it - as, rightly, it's a matter between the employer and the employee.

Somewhere between the two is the truth.

But, since all we know is based upon what the RMT have said, we can't make a judgment as to whether the truth lies.

 

[shinkansen09]

I've spoken to a few people at work about this who agree with me, but does anyone else wish for a more "moderate" union than the RMT? I'm talking political views here, not trade relations.

Bob Crow is a well known communist and I wonder exactly how many RMT members voted for Bob's political party yesterday.

I am wondering what business it is of yours as a non- RMT member to have any say as to who belongs to or shouldn`t belong to which political party, as this has nothing to do with the core topic

For your benefit:
"Moderate" probably means
A)Ineffective
B)Weak
C)Wishy-Washy
D) A total waste of time
SO WHY DON~T YOU SET ONE UP?

 

[ungreat]

Bob Crow is a well known communist and I wonder exactly how many RMT members voted for Bob's political party yesterday.

You mean Labour then....

I agree with the RMT-up the workers! And yes,we should be suspicious of rail management...you talk like one of them!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

i am wondering what business it is of yours as a non- rmt member to have any say as to who belongs to or shouldn`t belong to which political party, as this has nothing to do with the core topic

for your benefit:
"moderate" probably means
a)ineffective
b)weak
c)wishy-washy
d) a total waste of time
so why don~t you set one up?

spot on!