Does anyone know how tfl ticket zones were decided?

[Silent]

I know the met Line zones go high and it goes far from London but I find it questionable how the Central only goes to Zone 6 despite also going a bit out of London. It seem like the more recent stations added to fare zones are also likely to be beyond zone 6 if the are outer London but not near to tube stations.

 

[73Stock]

Why couldn't they have been numbered 1-10 east to west?

 

[stuu]

I vaguely remember that Essex County Council pays/paid something for the Central Line to reduce ticket costs. Might be misremembering though. Herts/Bucks didn't so got more expensive fares.

 

[stadler]

One other thing i have never understood is why they put Ewell East and Ewell West and Stoneleigh in the Zone 6 but yet Epsom is not. All four stations are within Epsom and outside Greater London but yet they only put three of them in Zone 6 and left the most major one out. Surely if you are going to do the other stations then you would put Epsom in Zone 6 too. I would love to know their logic for doing that.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why couldn't they have been numbered 1-10 west to east?

Because most journeys were assumed to be radial to/from a notional centre.

I think your suggestion would be a bit odd for long journeys on a north/south direction?

 

[PeterC]

The problem is that London is a little longer on the east west than on the north south. Unless you have a fragmented zone 7 there will be anomalies in the distance between zones

 

[JonathanH]

One other thing i have never understood is why they put Ewell East and Ewell West and Stoneleigh in the Zone 6 but yet Epsom is not. All four stations are within Epsom and outside Greater London but yet they only put three of them in Zone 6 and left the most major one out. Surely if you are going to do the other stations then you would put Epsom in Zone 6 too. I would love to know their logic for doing that.

Epsom in Zone 6 would cause a distinct revenue hit, and is some way beyond the Greater London boundary. As you say, it is the 'most major one' which gives an idea about why it is (now) in Zone 9.

Stoneleigh has been in zone 5 for some time because some of its catchment is in Greater London, and it's distance from Waterloo.

Ewell East and then Ewell West have been in zone 6 since the early 2000s, associated with a desire to prevent railheading to stations in Greater London. This was around the time the dead end Epsom Downs, Tattenham Corner and Caterham branches were also moved into Zone 6.

 

[A S Leib]

I vaguely remember that Essex County Council pays/paid something for the Central Line to reduce ticket costs. Might be misremembering though. Herts/Bucks didn't so got more expensive fares.

According to a TfL FOI request, it's false. TfL chose to put Epping into zone 6 in 1997 with stations past Moor Park matching fares towards Aylesbury (for their distance) more closely.

No fares subsidy have been received from Essex County Council since the inception of TfL in 2000 and we are not aware of any payments being made in the 1990s. The Epping branch was moved into Zone 6 in 1997 as a TfL initiative. The Metropolitan Line to Amersham/Chesham continues to have stations in zones 7 to 9 because this is a joint line with Chiltern Railways and fares have to reflect the fact that the line extends beyond Amersham.

There was an arrangement with Epping Forest District Council (not Essex County Council) from 2001 to give elderly and disabled residents of EFDC reduced fares on local buses and the central line. This ended in 2008 with the introduction of the existing scheme under which all elderly and eligible disabled people receive free local bus travel in England. This was financed by EFDC.

 

[jfollows]

Maybe not relevant, but I also remember two central zones with an overlap.
I had a season ticket to the western central zone from Ravenscourt Park, paid for by Cheshire County Council, which extended as far east as Temple, which was in the overlap zone. I had choir rehearsals up Ludgate Hill so I’d use my season ticket to Temple and walk from there.

I’m talking about 1982-83.

 

[Dstock7080]

Maybe not relevant, but I also remember two central zones with an overlap.

The initial West End and City zones, before the expansion beyond Central London

 

[Tetchytyke]

Ewell East and then Ewell West have been in zone 6 since the early 2000s, associated with a desire to prevent railheading to stations in Greater London. This was around the time the dead end Epsom Downs, Tattenham Corner and Caterham branches were also moved into Zone 6.

From memory the three branch lines were moved into zone 6 as a way of raising ridership and revenue on these lines, I think there was also a pragmatic view taken about reducing fare evasion on the outer reaches of the three branches also. Clearly that doesn’t apply at Epsom, which is why it remains outside the zones/zone 9.

A similar view was taken when Roding Valley, Chigwell, and Grange Hill were moved into zone 4, and when Moor Park was moved into zone 6.

 

[Railcar]

To get to Epsom with a Freedom Pass, take the train to Ewell East. Walk down the service road, round the corner, and catch the S2 bus to Epsom High Street. Alternatively, the S2 calls at Sutton station.

 

[Silent]

Why couldn't they have been numbered 1-10 west to east?

To make Central London stand out?

 

[simonw]

Why couldn't they have been numbered 1-10 west to east?

In case they wanted to add new ones on the west. Always best to start in the middle and work out.

 

[The exile]

In case they wanted to add new ones on the west. Always best to start in the middle and work out.

Also quite simply the most logical where you are talking about an area with one dominant “centre” so you end up with a “bullseye” pattern. Doesn’t work where there are multiple competing centres, which is why, for example, the VRR (Rhein-Ruhr) zones system was much more complex than (say) Munich or Hamburg.

 

[stuu]

According to a TfL FOI request, it's false. TfL chose to put Epping into zone 6 in 1997 with stations past Moor Park matching fares towards Aylesbury (for their distance) more closely.

That's interesting. I'm certain I have seen that written down somewhere reasonably authoritative, and at least someone else has got the idea from somewhere to then do the FOI request.

 

[A S Leib]

How are the dual-zone stations decided? Moor Park being in zones 6/7 for the benefit of Rickmansworth etc.–Croxley / Watford passengers makes sense given the sparsity of direct services, but why isn't e.g. Alexandra Palace in zones 3/4 for New Southgate to Winchmore Hill? Admittedly I can't see any cases left where tube rather than non-Overground / Crossrail National Rail stations being moved might be useful.

 

[deltic]

I briefly knew the person who devised the zonal map. It was created on their kitchen table, broadly based on distance from central London but it also had to work in relation to the bus network that also had zonal fares to begin with.

 

[Hadders]

I might be mid-remembering but didn’t Essex County Council part subsidise Epping to Ongar? And the removal of subsidy was one of the reasons for closure in 1994?

 

[AY1975]

This now-closed thread from 2023 may also be of interest: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...l-travelcard-oyster-or-other-pte-area.256116/

 

[coupwotcoup]

If you look at the TfL map, the four minute journey between Harold Wood and Brentwood, crosses four different fare zones...

 

[Edvid]

If you look at the TfL map, the four minute journey between Harold Wood and Brentwood, crosses four different fare zones...

Same goes for Ewell (either) - Epsom and Crews Hill - Cuffley, were the map to illustrate their actual zonal status.