Does anyone else find single leg pricing to be a pain?

[yorksrob]

Ok, we all know how iniquitous the LNER fares trial is.

However, the previous phase of single leg pricing seems to have been largely accepted.

The problem is that wherever I want to go, if I want to investigate the option of an open return fare, the single leg pricing thing on the ECML seems to have destroyed all options via London.

Very often going via London can be a more comfortable option than XC, so I like to consider that, however because I live on the ECML, this option is now denied me.

Why is LNER's policy allowed to dictate my ticketing options to places such as Bristol or Penzance ? Surely LNER should confine their idiosyncrasies to journeys within their network.

 

[Haywain]

Surely LNER should confine their idiosyncrasies to journeys within their network.

How would that work - they have to stick with returns for anything that might use a non-LNER train? This is not a defence of single leg pricing, just pointing out that simplistic solutions won't work. See also pricing in the Project Oval area.

 

[yorksrob]

How would that work - they have to stick with returns for anything that might use a non-LNER train? This is not a defence of single leg pricing, just pointing out that simplistic solutions won't work. See also pricing in the Project Oval area.

I don't know, it's just annoying that as soon as I've got to the stage in life where I ccn afford the luxury of an open return, they've got rid of it.

 

[route101]

I feel the price of a the off peak single is pretty much what was the off peak return price was a few years ago. Glasgow to Newcastle for example. Would be nice to offer day returns from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Newcastle. WCML has day return from Glasgow as far South as Preston.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

WCML has day return from Glasgow as far South as Preston.

Slightly further is possible in both directions. Croy to/from Adlington (Lancs) can also be done on an Off Peak Day Return.

 

[Wallsendmag]

You really wouldn’t believe the flows that LNER price

 

[Bletchleyite]

Prior to the new refund policy it was OK.

Very few people don't know the date of travel to a reasonable level of confidence, and on the rare occasion it might be £5 to change it I don't mind because of the added flexibility it provides, e.g. of routeing and of peak one way, off peak the other, or first class one way, standard the other (or if we had it on the WCML, WMT one way, Avanti the other, without the higher cost of paying for interavailable both ways).

The new refund policy I find to be a big problem, though, in that it prevents change of travel date on the travel date. But I would fix that, not single fare pricing which I'd like to see roll out nationally.

 

[yorksrob]

You really wouldn’t believe the flows that LNER price

Far too many, that much we already know.

 

[mikeg]

Sometimes it can be mildly frustrating but it can have its upsides. For example I’m currently in Inverness. There were no standard advances here or back (thank goodness there’s still off peak singles on this route) but on the way there there was a first class advance only £11 more expensive than the standard off peak for the chieftain. On the way back I’ll just buy my ticket on the day, from the TVM or ticket office and it’ll be a standard single.
Now if it weren’t for single leg pricing I’d have likely not been able to go first class on the way there for only a little extra. I’d have either had to pay significantly more or go standard both ways for only slightly cheaper.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not just heading West where single leg pricing seems to have killed off returns. Anything for Norwich seems to have killed off returns as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not just heading West where single leg pricing seems to have killed off returns. Anything for Norwich seems to have killed off returns as well.

Generally where you have a through fare providing an intercity leg and a regional leg, the intercity operator will set the fare. There are I'm sure counterexamples but it is the norm.

 

[Haywain]

It's not just heading West where single leg pricing seems to have killed off returns. Anything for Norwich seems to have killed off returns as well.

The only surprise in this is that you're surprised.

 

[yorkie]

Why is LNER's policy allowed to dictate my ticketing options to places such as Bristol or Penzance ? Surely LNER should confine their idiosyncrasies to journeys within their network.

I believe the DfT are keen for LNER's high prices to be extended as far and wide as possible.

See also:

London to Leeds off-peak returns

I have a couple of mid-week trips planned to Leeds with unknown outbound and return times but travelling "off-peak". Are there any reasonable get arounds LNER's new ticketing system that will give me flexibility without having to get a full priced anytime return. Also how do you select their...

www.railforums.co.uk

With Newcastle to London next Sunday afternoon starting from over £200 one-way, the aim is very much to price people off the rail network, and firmly into cars, during times of increased demand and/or reduced capacity, under the guise or "simplification"

And don't forget, once the Super Off Peak Single is abolished from Yorkshire, you need to look for the prices of all trains within a +/- 70-min time window of when you want to travel, to see if a "70 min flex" fare is cheaper than the non-flex fare for a train you'd actually want to catch. This is ostensibly in line with keeping things "simple", as it's considered to be simpler to look at the prices of alternative trains than to have tickets with so-called "outdated" restrictions such as "Not valid between 1500-1900" or similar, which LNER believes the public can't understand.

You may want to contact your MP about this, before the Yorkshire to London fares are made even more unaffordable than they are today.

Incidentally, the DfT/LNER claim that that this is all a great success and that passengers want this, however the reality is that they actually deem it to be a success because it increases the amount paid per occupied seats, and ensures that at less busy times many trains have loads of empty seats.

 

[yorksrob]

Generally where you have a through fare providing an intercity leg and a regional leg, the intercity operator will set the fare. There are I'm sure counterexamples but it is the norm.

That might work for Norwich, but for trips to the West Country, the Paddington leg is just as InterCity.

I believe the DfT are keen for LNER's high prices to be extended as far and wide as possible.

See also:

London to Leeds off-peak returns

I have a couple of mid-week trips planned to Leeds with unknown outbound and return times but travelling "off-peak". Are there any reasonable get arounds LNER's new ticketing system that will give me flexibility without having to get a full priced anytime return. Also how do you select their...

www.railforums.co.uk

With Newcastle to London next Sunday afternoon starting from over £200 one-way, the aim is very much to price people off the rail network, and firmly into cars, during times of increased demand and/or reduced capacity, under the guise or "simplification"

And don't forget, once the Super Off Peak Single is abolished from Yorkshire, you need to look for the prices of all trains within a +/- 70-min time window of when you want to travel, to see if a "70 min flex" fare is cheaper than the non-flex fare for a train you'd actually want to catch. This is ostensibly in line with keeping things "simple", as it's considered to be simpler to look at the prices of alternative trains than to have tickets with so-called "outdated" restrictions such as "Not valid between 1500-1900" or similar, which LNER believes the public can't understand.

You may want to contact your MP about this, before the Yorkshire to London fares are made even more unaffordable than they are today.

Incidentally, the DfT/LNER claim that that this is all a great success and that passengers want this, however the reality is that they actually deem it to be a success because it increases the amount paid per occupied seats, and ensures that at less busy times many trains have loads of empty seats.

Yes, we will be through the looking glass when the dreadful abolition of off-peak fares is extended.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That might work for Norwich, but for trips to the West Country, the Paddington leg is just as InterCity.

In that case it'll be fairly arbitrary which prices it.

 

[Haywain]

That might work for Norwich, but for trips to the West Country, the Paddington leg is just as InterCity.

The good news is that for the West Country you have the alternatives priced by CrossCountry.

 

[MikeWh]

The good news is that for the West Country you have the alternatives priced by CrossCountry.

Where's the sarcasm button?

 

[Haywain]

Where's the sarcasm button?

Yes, it was a bit tongue in cheek but an Off Peak Return routed "not via London" is cheaper than two Off Peak Singles routed "Any Permitted".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it was a bit tongue in cheek but an Off Peak Return routed "not via London" is cheaper than two Off Peak Singles routed "Any Permitted".

And XC do have fairly generous time restrictions on off peak fares, generally just "not before 0930" with no evening restrictions.

Not very complicated, indeed, LNER, is it?

 

[JonathanH]

And XC do have fairly generous time restrictions on off peak fares, generally just "not before 0930" with no evening restrictions.

Not as generous as when they didn't have those restrictions, nor very helpful when an hourly service leaves just before 0930.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having looked it certainly appears LNER are having a good old price gouge because of the Glasgow Central issues. I've never seen so many Anytime-only services on a Sunday as this Sunday and I've been watching the effects of the "trial" quite closely for a while now.

 

[route101]

Having looked it certainly appears LNER are having a good old price gouge because of the Glasgow Central issues. I've never seen so many Anytime-only services on a Sunday as this Sunday and I've been watching the effects of the "trial" quite closely for a while now.

I have found there is less advances Glasgow to Newcastle, the ones that remain are the more expensive ones.

Avanti advances can be up at £160 one way London to Glasgow.

 

[yorksrob]

The good news is that for the West Country you have the alternatives priced by CrossCountry.

Unfortunately, that generally means that you have to use their trains !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Mar 2026 ==

And XC do have fairly generous time restrictions on off peak fares, generally just "not before 0930" with no evening restrictions.

Not very complicated, indeed, LNER, is it?

Oh no, that's far too complicated for our poor feeble brains to cope with !

 

[Sonic1234]

the aim is very much to price people off the rail network, and firmly into cars, during times of increased demand and/or reduced capacity, under the guise or "simplification"

Exactly as planned. The Government want you to drive , publically they won't admit this but all those taxes are so tempting. Not just for central government, but local government too in the form of parking charges and business rates on car parks.

The Government probably would like you to smoke too.

 

[yorkie]

Having looked it certainly appears LNER are having a good old price gouge because of the Glasgow Central issues. I've never seen so many Anytime-only services on a Sunday as this Sunday and I've been watching the effects of the "trial" quite closely for a while now.

Indeed; LNER want £204.80 on the 12:03 or 13:03 KGX - EDB on Sunday.

We offer a third off that price; no wonder LNER are ensuring that their retail operation is being hugely subsidised with public funding in a huge advertising campaign on trains and at stations desperately urging people to "book direct"!


(Image shows pricing on Sun 22 Mar from King's Cross to Edinburgh from 12:00; LNER are charging £204.80 Anytime fares on the 12:03 and 13:03 departures, while the forum's ticketing site offers both these options for £131.53. Prices correct on 16 Mar @ 22:00)

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[route101]

Surely an off peak single would be valid from London to Glasgow on Sunday?