Dodgy ticket

[crosscity]

This afternoon I was walking through Kings Norton station car park prior to catching a train to New St when a man on a bicycle heading in the opposite direction stopped and said "Do you want this ticket - I have no further use for it". I said "OK" and took it from him and he cycled off.

I looked at the ticket and it purported to be a Network 1 day ticket and looks a bit spartan - for instance there is no 'Issued at" station and there appear to be too many things meaningthe same thing, such as Available, Valid and Validity.

I decided not to use it, but to show it to the booking office clerk and buy my own ticket as per my original plan. The booking office was closed, so I used a TVM and went on my way.

I've been thinking about the ticket all day, and if it is fraudulent I would like to hand it over to a relevant authority. Can anyone tell me if the ticket is dodgy and if so, what action you would advise.

It may be that if it was valid I still couldn't have used it as it was non-transferable. I accepted it in the first place because sometimes when I've had a 1-day travelcard I have handed it over to someone at Euston as a goodwill gesture.

 

[RJ]

This afternoon I was walking through Kings Norton station car park prior to catching a train to New St when a man on a bicycle heading in the opposite direction stopped and said "Do you want this ticket - I have no further use for it". I said "OK" and took it from him and he cycled off.

I looked at the ticket and it purported to be a Network 1 day ticket and looks a bit spartan - for instance there is no 'Issued at" station and there appear to be too many things meaningthe same thing, such as Available, Valid and Validity.

I decided not to use it, but to show it to the booking office clerk and buy my own ticket as per my original plan. The booking office was closed, so I used a TVM and went on my way.

I've been thinking about the ticket all day, and if it is fraudulent I would like to hand it over to a relevant authority. Can anyone tell me if the ticket is dodgy and if so, what action you would advise.

It may be that if it was valid I still couldn't have used it as it was non-transferable. I accepted it in the first place because sometimes when I've had a 1-day travelcard I have handed it over to someone at Euston as a goodwill gesture.

It was issued from an Avantix Mobile machine - the portable ticket machine that on board retail and revenue protection staff use, hence why there is no "issued at" location. It looks ok to me.

 

[bb21]

... because sometimes when I've had a 1-day travelcard I have handed it over to someone at Euston as a goodwill gesture.

I trust that you are a good boy, and I trust that you will stop doing this, right?

 

[crosscity]

I trust that you are a good boy, and I trust that you will stop doing this, right?

Oh yes. I now have an Oyster card which I use when I am in the 'smoke'.

 

[CNash]

Goodwill to my fellow man trumps goodwill to the TOCs, I'm afraid, and I have passed on 1-day travelcards that I no longer have a use for...

 

[bb21]

You're therefore landing them in trouble potentially. Not goodwill as such.

 

[wintonian]

It was issued from an Avantix Mobile machine - the portable ticket machine that on board retail and revenue protection staff use, hence why there is no "issued at" location. It looks ok to me.

Oh darn it, if I bothered to look at the actual ticket rather than trying to track down a non existent NLC I would have known that myself.

 

[Urban Gateline]

You're therefore landing them in trouble potentially. Not goodwill as such.

And some people make it so blatently obvious when handing over a day Travelcard to someone else when they have finished with it! I overhead someone offering one to someone else and of course it rejected in the barriers when the person tried to enter the station, as I had seen and heard the exchange I confiscated it and warned the passenger not to accept such tickets from another person if that person has already used it!

 

[wintonian]

if that person has already used it!

Or even if they haven't - unless it was bought for the person it is being offered to, but that may be nit picking.

 

[CNash]

You're therefore landing them in trouble potentially. Not goodwill as such.

Is there some way to detect whether a paper, cash-bought, anonymous 1-day travelcard has changed hands that I'm not aware of?

 

[Mojo]

The fact that a lot of people exchanging such tickets seem to do so by walking up to people in Underground ticket halls, covered with staff and CCTV, is normally a good giveaway. You never know who you are offering your ticket to, or who is stood nearby.

 

[island]

Goodwill to my fellow man trumps goodwill to the TOCs, I'm afraid, and I have passed on 1-day travelcards that I no longer have a use for...

That is a criminal offence.

 

[district]

I was offered a 'Day Saver' (which then then turned out to be a Travelcard) from a Liverpudlian outside Euston Square Underground station.

I don't know if she was selling or giving it away, but needless to say I didn't accept it.

 

[michael769]

Goodwill to my fellow man trumps goodwill to the TOCs, I'm afraid, and I have passed on 1-day travelcards that I no longer have a use for...

I wonder how good your goodwill will make you feel if you end up in front of a Magistrate on a conspiracy to commit fraud charge?

 

[table38]

I'm old enough to remember the days when people left their one-day travelcards at the bottom of the escallator at Euston for "recycling"

 

[cjohnson]

I understand the T&Cs prohibit one but not the other, but ethically what's the difference between giving a one-day Travelcard to someone else, and giving a PAYG Oyster that has reached the daily cap? In theory TfL/a TOC loses out on revenue either way, yet only doing the former could land you in trouble.

 

[jb]

Apologies in advance for the po-facedness (well not really, since po-facedness when it suits is stock-in-trade around here) but I do wonder why tales of widespread criminal fraud against a TOC are accompanied by a

It's especially incongrouous with TOCs occasional failures to allow passengers to do exactly what they like being treated with the utmost seriousness and sternness, as they usually are around here.

 

[neilmc]

ETHICALLY there's nothing wrong whatsoever in my book in any of this, since a valid ticket has been bought and used and it doesn't hold a photograph/signature which limits it to a specific person so it's an act of Christian kindness to pass it on to someone else when you happen to no longer have use for it. I don't live in London so it's not my issue (I pass my Stagecoach weekly bus ticket around the family which I think is actually legal) but I doubt there's many Londoners would disagree, other than aforementioned po-faced site members who have their own motives or can't be seen to be condoning anything against the rules.

Of course ETHICAL and LEGAL are two different things!

 

[jb]

ETHICALLY there's nothing wrong whatsoever in my book in any of this, since a valid ticket has been bought and used and it doesn't hold a photograph/signature which limits it to a specific person so it's an act of Christian kindness to pass it on to someone else when you happen to no longer have use for it.

Just as well I'm not a Christian then, since stealing money out of fellow passengers' pockets (which is what you're talking about here) is not part of my personal ethical code.

 

[maniacmartin]

I don't think its ethically right. You pay for travel for one person but multiple people use it? Is it Christian kindness to give away services that belong to other people and not to you?

 

[michael769]

I don't think its ethically right. You pay for travel for one person put multiple people use it? Is it Christian kindness to give away services that belong to other people and not to you?

Quite - it is stealing in my book pure and simple.

Even if that is to much of a step to take, people who buy tickets make a promise to abide by the agreed terms and conditions. I fail to see how reneging on a promise is somehow ethically OK?

 

[Fare-Cop]

Quite - it is stealing in my book pure and simple.

Even if that is to much of a step to take, people who buy tickets make a promise to abide by the agreed terms and conditions. I fail to see how reneging on a promise is somehow ethically OK?

Absolutely correct, and of course the law agrees with you.

 

[MikeWh]

I understand the T&Cs prohibit one but not the other, but ethically what's the difference between giving a one-day Travelcard to someone else, and giving a PAYG Oyster that has reached the daily cap? In theory TfL/a TOC loses out on revenue either way, yet only doing the former could land you in trouble.

I don't know about ethics, but the big difference between the two is the deposit on the Oyster card. This means that the person giving is most likely going to want to get it back. For this reason you are only likely to share cards among close friends or family. In those sort of situations you might well also share a paper travelcard and there is very little likelihood of the transaction being noticed as it will usually happen in private. What the TOCs are keen to stop is the touting of travelcards on station concourses, sometimes with money changing hands.

 

[district]

What the TOCs are keen to stop is the touting of travelcards on station concourses, sometimes with money changing hands.

I would also say TOCs and the BTP discourage ticket touting, not only as it is against the law but the money is often used on alcohol or drugs, which may cause more anti-social behavior on stations.

 

[Panda]

I bet you the same people handing around these tickets are the ones complaining the most about the "injustice" when fares go up.

 

[pinguini]

I bet you the same people handing around these tickets are the ones complaining the most about the "injustice" when fares go up.

Come off it, fares do not rise because of ticket touts or fare evaders. It would happen regardless.

 

[yorkie]

what's the difference between giving a one-day Travelcard to someone else, and giving a PAYG Oyster that has reached the daily cap? I.

There is a huge difference.

You're not likely to give away an Oyster card you paid a deposit for, to a stranger are you?

Oyster has massively reduced ticket touting and associated problems. I used to see touts at KGX regularly, but I've not seen one in years.

 

[CNash]

I don't think its ethically right. You pay for travel for one person but multiple people use it? Is it Christian kindness to give away services that belong to other people and not to you?

In paying for a one-day travelcard, you pay for travel for one person, yes. But only one person can use it at any one time.

I understand that "da Rules" make this illegal - but I've never seen this "offense" as anywhere near as serious as deliberately not paying for a ticket.

 

[island]

Well, it is!

 

[wintonian]

but I've never seen this "offense" as anywhere near as serious as deliberately not paying for a ticket.

Well you deliberately haven't - somebody else did.