Doctored railcard

[Griff95]

Hi all, I’ve been using a railcard which I’ve changed the date on for the past year. I just got caught and now I’m panicking they’ll take me to court as I work in Finance. Do you think I will just receive a penalty to pay?

I know what I did was stupid and didn’t really think about it as I rarely get asked to see it and the option for the railcard is automatic on my trainline app so I just don’t think. Any advice is appreciated!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Any advice is appreciated!

Think you need to consider seeking out specialist legal representation. This might prove a costly matter to resolve.

In the meantime, please have a look at the following thread...

Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions

Guidance for those asking for advice: Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey The stations* where you changed...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Deafdoggie]

Hi all, I’ve been using a railcard which I’ve changed the date on for the past year. I just got caught and now I’m panicking they’ll take me to court as I work in Finance. Do you think I will just receive a penalty to pay?

I know what I did was stupid and didn’t really think about it as I rarely get asked to see it and the option for the railcard is automatic on my trainline app so I just don’t think. Any advice is appreciated!

I concurr with the above advice. But it may be helpful if you let us know which train company caught you.

 

[Griff95]

It was GWR

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi all, I’ve been using a railcard which I’ve changed the date on for the past year. I just got caught and now I’m panicking they’ll take me to court as I work in Finance. Do you think I will just receive a penalty to pay?

I know what I did was stupid and didn’t really think about it as I rarely get asked to see it and the option for the railcard is automatic on my trainline app so I just don’t think. Any advice is appreciated!

It will be hard to claim that changing the date was 'stupid' or that you 'just didn't think' in that it's something which needs you to make a deliberate effort.

In the circumstances, if you are in the union where you work (or if there's a staff association which does not automatically report everything to management) it is probably worth talking to them sooner rather than later to find out how seriously your employer is likely to treat something like this.

 

[Griff95]

I would say the amount I had saved is under £1000, I’m really worried as I keep reading stories I know I’ve been stupid and more than happy to pay a penalty or the amount I owe them

 

[Deafdoggie]

I would say the amount I had saved is under £1000, I’m really worried as I keep reading stories I know I’ve been stupid and more than happy to pay a penalty or the amount I owe them

I think your best bet is to contact a solicitor.

 

[Haywain]

Hi all, I’ve been using a railcard which I’ve changed the date on for the past year. I just got caught and now I’m panicking they’ll take me to court as I work in Finance. Do you think I will just receive a penalty to pay?

I know what I did was stupid and didn’t really think about it as I rarely get asked to see it and the option for the railcard is automatic on my trainline app so I just don’t think. Any advice is appreciated!

Personally, I think it would be hasty to go for specialist legal advice as others have suggested. GWR's policy is quite clear that they prefer not to take people to court for fares offences, and I see no reason this wouldn't apply to you. At this stage, you should just wait until you receive a letter from them, which will most likely be asking for your comments. If they find your reply acceptable they will then offer you a settlement but it is clear that in your case this will be expensive. The amount you have saved isn't really relevant as they will look at the amounts you should have paid, without taking account of what you did pay. They will also add on an fee to cover their costs which will be in the region of £150 or so. If you have saved £1000, I think you can assume they will be looking to recover probably double that, if not more. Start saving.

Just to add, on what we have seen elsewhere on the forum, specialist solicitors will charge you a fee of around £500 to £800 to handle your case, on top of the settlement fee. Only you can decide if this is worthwhile for something I believe you can handle yourself.

 

[skyhigh]

I think your best bet is to contact a solicitor.

I would wait until GWR send a letter first and see what they say. They are usually fairly reasonable compared to other TOCs.

and the option for the railcard is automatic on my trainline app so I just don’t think.

As above, that's untrue. You didn't just forget the expiry date of your Railcard - you made the deliberate choice to alter it to evade fares. This isn't an accident or a lack of thought, you chose to do this. You need to own what you've done rather than portray it as some kind of accident.

 

[AlterEgo]

I would wait until GWR send a letter first and see what they say. They are usually fairly reasonable compared to other TOCs.

This.

I'm not sure how they will treat such a blatant act with such obvious premeditation, but it is definitely better to wait for the letter first and see where to go from there. Contacting a solicitor is premature at this point.

 

[spyinthesky]

As you have saved under £1000, you will be required to pay the full fare for each journey plus administration costs if your outcome is favourable.

 

[AndroidBango]

Personally, I think it would be hasty to go for specialist legal advice as others have suggested. GWR's policy is quite clear that they prefer not to take people to court for fares offences, and I see no reason this wouldn't apply to you. At this stage, you should just wait until you receive a letter from them, which will most likely be asking for your comments. If they find your reply acceptable they will then offer you a settlement but it is clear that in your case this will be expensive. The amount you have saved isn't really relevant as they will look at the amounts you should have paid, without taking account of what you did pay. They will also add on an fee to cover their costs which will be in the region of £150 or so. If you have saved £1000, I think you can assume they will be looking to recover probably double that, if not more. Start saving.

Just to add, on what we have seen elsewhere on the forum, specialist solicitors will charge you a fee of around £500 to £800 to handle your case, on top of the settlement fee. Only you can decide if this is worthwhile for something I believe you can handle yourself.

While I agree that it's best to wait for the letter, doesn't the premeditated tampering with a railcard make this potentially more than a strict fares offence?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

While I agree that it's best to wait for the letter, doesn't the premeditated tampering with a railcard make this potentially more than a strict fares offence?

Particularly so for anyone working in finance, for whom a court conviction could prove to be decidedly career limiting. Hence my general advice in post #2 (upthread).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

While I agree that it's best to wait for the letter, doesn't the premeditated tampering with a railcard make this potentially more than a strict fares offence?

Quite possibly - it certainly meets the everyday definition of fraud, although there's constant debate here about what specifically falls in to the legal definition.

But the letter (when it comes) from GWR may give some hints about what road they are planning to go down. Even if they can prosecute for fraud, they may want to go for a simpler resolution - I would think that fraud is quite tricky (so expensive) to prosecute.

 

[Kenny G]

Did they take a photo of or confiscate the doctored card?

 

[Haywain]

doesn't the premeditated tampering with a railcard make this potentially more than a strict fares offence?

Potentially yes, but we have seen similar cases before and they have been settled rather than prosecuted.

 

[father_jack]

Did they take a photo of or confiscate the doctored card?

In this day and age it will more likely be a digital railcard with the date changed using a bad font from photoshop but the aztec code will still be scanning to show the original date.

 

[gray1404]

This is a very serious offence as it's altering a ticket or Railcard. GWR are one of the more pragmatic TOCs to deal with and negotiate an out of court settlement. Due to the seriousness this is not guaranteed. There is hope provided you have not come to their attention before.

Wait for their letter to arrive then post a copy here with personal information retracted.

 

[Starmill]

While I agree that it's best to wait for the letter, doesn't the premeditated tampering with a railcard make this potentially more than a strict fares offence?

This is certainly possible, but as it's GWR rather than the police, they're more likely to treat it in line with their policy rather than the Crown's.

 

[John R]

You say you work in "Finance", which could cover a lot of roles. If however you are in either a regulated profession (eg accountancy), or work in the financial services industry (ie regulated by the PRA/FCA) then any conviction will be very serious, and for the latter, is highly likely to result in dismissal, as the regulator requires companies to be very tough on those convicted of fraudulent behaviour, not unreasonably.

For that reason, it may be worth the cost of a solicitor from the outset, but ultimately it is your call.

You also need to have a good hard look at yourself and ask what on earth you were doing committing fraud given your career choice.

 

[Haywain]

For that reason, it may be worth the cost of a solicitor from the outset, but ultimately it is your call.

I still disagree. There is no need for a solicitor until a summons has been issued.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I still disagree. There is no need for a solicitor until a summons has been issued.

A solicitor might potentially stop a summons being issued and therefore reduce the stress.

 

[Darandio]

A solicitor might potentially stop a summons being issued and therefore reduce the stress.

But it's highly unlikely a summons will be issued as the next course of action. They haven't even had first contact yet.

 

[Haywain]

A solicitor might potentially stop a summons being issued and therefore reduce the stress.

I get that you are determined not to agree with me, so how about we both accept we've given our advice on this point and let the OP weigh up the options.

 

[furlong]

Exactly - with GWR, just wait for the letter and reply in the standard way assuming nobody else was involved in this other than yourself.
(If someone was forging railcards for more than one person, then it would be different. Also, I wouldn't mention working in finance, as the public interest could then work against you.)

 

[Hadders]

My advice is to wait for the letter and see what it says. Once you know what the lketter says you can then decide whether to engage a solicitor.

 

[MotCO]

One if the key things to try to secure an out of Court settlement is to engage with GWR in a positive way. If you are likely to move in the next six months, please ensure that you set up a post redirect service. If you did not give a correct address or name, then you will need to contact them to correct this.

 

[John R]

I would say the amount I had saved is under £1000, I’m really worried as I keep reading stories I know I’ve been stupid and more than happy to pay a penalty or the amount I owe them

This could be very expensive for you. Let's do the maths.

Suppose you've saved £1,000 (I know you say it's less than that, but it keeps the maths easy). That means the full price tickets would have been £3,000 (and you paid £2,000 with the discount). However, it's standard practice for the rail companies to ask for the full price without any discount for the amount you've paid. That would mean they would come after for you for the full £3k. (Sometimes they are more generous when it was more obviously a mistake, such as a railcard only recently out of date, but given there was clear intent here, I wouldn't bet on it.)

But... they also usually charge a full anytime single fare for each journey taken, whereas you are likely to have bought off peak or advance tickets. That could make a huge difference.

As an example, an off peak day return from Bristol to Paddington is £95. But an anytime single is £126. So for the ticket that you saved £30 on they could ask for £252, so a factor of eight. That's probably an extreme example, and it all depends on what journeys you were actually taking.

If you do get offered an out of court settlement, you'll be expected to come up with the cash pretty quickly, so you might want to go through your list of journeys and get some idea of what a worst case scenario might be. BRFares.com lists all the available fares if you need to know what any particular fare would be.

 

[LJA]

Suppose not relevant now, but can only assume OP was no longer eligible for a railcard? Otherwise why not buy one

 

[Tevion539]

Suppose not relevant now, but can only assume OP was no longer eligible for a railcard? Otherwise why not buy one

It won't change their current situation. It will only go to prove that theyre not going to claim a discount they're not entitled to in the future. That being said, given the obvious intent to defraud the railway; why would they believe it won't happen again in 12 months time?

That's just my pragmatic view, however.