Do you ALWAYS claim for delay? If not, why not?

[digitaltoast]

I always claim for delay, but having heard something on Radio 4 last week, and following a recent discussion on a delayed train, it appears LOTS of people either don't know about it, or don't bother.

I see it as my moral duty to claim for anything over 31 minutes - after all, you wouldn't stand for buying milk, only to find it was rotten - you'd make a claim, wouldn't you? And the way I see it is: if EVERYONE claimed, they'd pretty soon buck ideas up! Yes, it takes a few moments, but just do it on the next journey!
I keep a couple of XC claim forms in my case!

Because my journeys are either short or booked well in advance, I'm only up to about £150 of refunds this year, but I was pleased to see this site:
http://www.trainrefunds.co.uk/index.php
Only to find it doesn't actually do anything!

I wouldn't usually bother so much, it's just that I am using every spare moment to let train companies, ATOC and Passenger Focus know how much I detest "simplification" and the huge price rises it brought (£12 to £21+ for my most regular fare).

Shame I can't claim from the government about LYING about bringing train fares down!

Note: I think they must be getting snowed under - they have always done that nasty paper-wasting trick of "letting you know they received your letter" (so they can meet the "responded" target), but usually the refund would be within a month. I now have two refunds due over 40 days old and counting.

 

[Mintona]

Never once claimed for a delay. Even when I was about 90 mins late coming home from Peterborough once. Got the forms et all, but couldn't be bothered to fill them in.

 

[LucaZone]

I dont claim if a train is late because im never in a hurry when I use a train. I just turn up at the station, buy my ticket and take the next train that serves the destination I want. So if the train I pick is delayed, I either get another one or I wait.

Seeing as my intention is not to be at the destination at a particular given time, I dont consider myself late if the train I 'chose' to catch is delayed.

So if I were to claim for the train I 'chose' to catch if it wass late, I would infact be profitting from the situation, rather than recieving compensation.

 

[P156KWJ]

I got £10 compensation yesterday from XC. however, it is not verty well advertised that you can actually do this, so a lot of people don't know about it. However, I don't bother when it's delayed because of bad weather, vandalism or the like, because it is well beyond TOCs power to prevent such incidents

 

[me123]

Never claimed; never had a train that was more than 30 minutes late!

Actually, there was one that was 45 minutes late, but it was due to a signalling failure and FSR handled it so well that I didn't even think of a refund. Had they handled it poorly, I may have enquired about this, but to me the Customer Care was pretty impressive.

Of course, for those who were 45 minutes late and needed to be on time, it may well have been a different story. But I wasn't inconvenienced and, because the staff were so great in the circumstances and FSR themselves didn't do anything wrong, I decided not to pursue it.

 

[digitaltoast]

Never once claimed for a delay. Even when I was about 90 mins late coming home from Peterborough once. Got the forms et all, but couldn't be bothered to fill them in.

I suppose if it's <£5 I might not. What was your 5 mins of not-filling the form worth, out of interest?

I got £10 compensation yesterday from XC. however, it is not verty well advertised that you can actually do this, so a lot of people don't know about it.

Exactly the problem - but how can we get people better educated?

Anyway, I've just done what I now realise I should'a done at the start and posted a poll!

 

[Royston Vasey]

I got £10 compensation yesterday from XC. however, it is not verty well advertised that you can actually do this, so a lot of people don't know about it. However, I don't bother when it's delayed because of bad weather, vandalism or the like, because it is well beyond TOCs power to prevent such incidents

But whoever is allocated the blame for the delay gets the eventual bill don't they? Not necessarily the TOC you receive the compo from?

I always claim. Why not, I don't owe TOCs a favour...

I claimed for a delay on a business trip recently and was particularly cross that my two colleagues didn't claim theirs despite me handling them the forms to claim back. They said weeks later "oh I never use the train so didn't bother and have lost the ticket now"

Whereas I do regularly use the train, often long distance, so their vouchers would have been very useful to me!

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!

I always claim for delay, but having heard something on Radio 4 last week, and following a recent discussion on a delayed train, it appears LOTS of people either don't know about it, or don't bother.

Normally I base my decision to make a complaint and/or seek a refund based not so much on the delay itself, but more the inconvenience caused to my journey and whether or not it had a negative impact on my other planned activities throughout the day.

The last such complaint that I made was directed through Virgin XC, which followed a three hour delay I experienced on a direct journey between Birmingham NS and Basingstoke around last October. However - As the delay itself had been caused by a failed axle-counter in the Coventry area, and the resultant queues from manual signalling having to be used throughout the area - My actual claim for compensation for the delay was aimed directly at Network Fail, and made through Virgin XC. Strangely enough though, the RTV compensation that I received still came from Virgin XC, even though I held Network Fail responsible for the delay and was only passing my claim through VT as one cannot make such a claim against NF directly. hock:

Incidentally - In this case - I'd say that Virgin XC had gone well above the call of duty in trying to minimize the impact that this had on us all. Although they had - Unwisely - Taken a unit off at Birmingham NS (So we had a Pendo's worth of passengers all crammed on a Voyager! hock, they at least put on connecting taxis at Basingstoke for those who had missed their connections with other TOCs, and the train manager on the service did a sterling job of managing to resolve a lot of the passenger problems (Such as declassifying First due to the passenger numbers and the long delay) despite being placed under some severe pressure! 8)

I dont claim if a train is late because im never in a hurry when I use a train. I just turn up at the station, buy my ticket and take the next train that serves the destination I want. So if the train I pick is delayed, I either get another one or I wait.

I generally use all rail networks in the same way - Even for long distance journeys. As I'm often comfortable with standing in a vestibule for a number of hours and -Assuming I don't have an injury when I travel - Don't really consider a seat to be an absolute necessity for journeys of under 300 miles, I suppose I'm well adapted to using todays overcrowded and under-stocked network!

I got £10 compensation yesterday from XC. however, it is not verty well advertised that you can actually do this, so a lot of people don't know about it. However, I don't bother when it's delayed because of bad weather, vandalism or the like, because it is well beyond TOCs power to prevent such incidents

Aye indeed...As I implied above; If liability for a delay can be placed upon a specific organisation (Such as Network Fail) then I will normally aim my claim for compensation directly at that company or organisation...Although in the case of companies that are not TOCs, I will normally make such a claim through the TOC that carried me for the relevant leg of the journey and make it perfectly clear who I hold liable for the delay and the after-effects. 8)

Shame I can't claim from the government about LYING about bringing train fares down!

My understanding of the law isn't totally comprehensive or anything, but personally - Considering it was publicly announced that no fare rise would take place - I'd hold the "simplification" of fares itself to be a breach of the Trade Descriptions Act, and other relevant consumer legislation...Against which the Government could be bought to trial in a civil court.

Although I'm normally far too disorganised and scatterbrained to make such actions myself, there is one thing that I *do* want to clearly emphesize to everyone here and elsewhere:
The British Government is a body that is supposed to be elected by the people, and who are supposed to work for and in the best interests of the people as the people so choose the Government to do so. Basically, what this means is that the proper office of the Government is to represent the views of the general public in both national and international matters, and to act on the publics' behalf whenever we - The public - Wish for something to be changed.
The Government is by no means immune to any form of legal and other legislation, and were they to abuse their positions (As they are clearly doing now) then we do have every right and legal power to stop it.
Another thing to be emphesised especially at this time - Badly governed as we are by a clearly inept (IMPO) and unelected Prime Minister - Is that we do have the right to depose and impeach him if the majority of the general public were to consider such an action appropriate. Though impeachment and lynch mobs havn't been seen at Downing Street since Conservative days, we still have every right to impeach and dismiss our own Prime Minister if we so wish...And by virtue of the Magna Carta 1215CE, no law or act whatsoever can remove that right from our shoulders!

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[digitaltoast]

we still have every right to impeach and dismiss our own Prime Minister if we so wish...And by virtue of the Magna Carta 1215CE, no law or act whatsoever can remove that right from our shoulders!

Due to the danger of this spiralling off topic, I'm not going to say TOO much, but I think you can safely infer that you're typing what most of us are thinking!
What I don't understand is that, in spite of lower standards of social and criminal justice, despite a wider gap between rich and poor, despite greater child poverty, and even in spite of more diverse groups protesting in greater numbers about more injustices than during the Thatcher years..WHERE are the riots?! Where is the unrest? Or is it only the hard left who have the guts to get up and get angry?! (Rant over - sorry!)

 

[P156KWJ]

But whoever is allocated the blame for the delay gets the eventual bill don't they? Not necessarily the TOC you receive the compo from?

I always claim. Why not, I don't owe TOCs a favour...

I claimed for a delay on a business trip recently and was particularly cross that my two colleagues didn't claim theirs despite me handling them the forms to claim back. They said weeks later "oh I never use the train so didn't bother and have lost the ticket now"

Whereas I do regularly use the train, often long distance, so their vouchers would have been very useful to me!

how can bad weather be blamed on Network Rail though. Not having a go, just want people to see that they can't be blamed for everything. There was some idiot member of the public who suggested putting a cover over the lines in the autumn to stop leaves falling on to them (and then he'd complain about engineering works to put the covers on bloody brain dead!

 

[Phoenix]

I got £10 compensation yesterday from XC. however, it is not verty well advertised that you can actually do this, so a lot of people don't know about it. However, I don't bother when it's delayed because of bad weather, vandalism or the like, because it is well beyond TOCs power to prevent such incidents

were you late for a business meeting or something important ????

 

[P156KWJ]

no, I was on the mileage challenge

 

[Phoenix]

no, I was on the mileage challenge

I think the aim of the compensation is to pay you back for missed connection ect which may cost others more money or even a taxi not sure mileage challanges really count but I suppose if you can get it then why not.

 

[P156KWJ]

no, the aim of compensation is when you have a badly delayed or cancelled train you get some money back, regardless of what you were using that train for.

 

[Phoenix]

no, the aim of compensation is when you have a badly delayed or cancelled train you get some money back, regardless of what you were using that train for.

Honestly and no offence but did you claim because either.

1.It actually bothers you about being late and you feel you should be given the money.

2.Your not actually bothered whether you was late or not but you might aswell get the money if there gonna give it to you because it's really a plus cause you got to your destination for alot cheaper.

Sorry just curious and no offence intended.

 

[Jim]

I have not voted in the poll - because there is no option for "Depends on Circumstances"

Let me ask you all who claim for everything and anything;

Do you think about the incident that has gone on, before submitting?

I would not under any circumstance put in a claim for something which may have adversely affected people working for the TOC. Do you think it's right if you claim after a Fatality, or after someone had thrown a bike at the train? How about someone who has bricked the windscreen?

I should hope not - because that attitude, weather you like it or not - makes me SICK - down right SICK...

 

[class 313]

Maybe because usually the compensation isn't very much, also would you rather that money go towards making it a better service?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have not voted in the poll - because there is no option for "Depends on Circumstances"

Let me ask you all who claim for everything and anything;

Do you think about the incident that has gone on, before submitting?

I would not under any circumstance put in a claim for something which may have adversely affected people working for the TOC. Do you think it's right if you claim after a Fatality, or after someone had thrown a bike at the train? How about someone who has bricked the windscreen?

I should hope not - because that attitude, weather you like it or not - makes me SICK - down right SICK...

I agree, greed comes to mind.

 

[devon_metro]

I only claim if it has generally annoyed me. I've arrived over an hour late due to Cross Country although wasn't overly fussed so didn't claim. I've also been fairly hacked off before about a cancellation and claimed even though it was for a mediocre amount.

 

[Royston Vasey]

no, the aim of compensation is when you have a badly delayed or cancelled train you get some money back, regardless of what you were using that train for.

Spot on. I don't think there's anything wrong with claiming... rail travel is pretty expensive and if you don't get the service you're promised, for whatever reason, then why not claim. As far as I'm concerned if I am delayed through no fault of my own, there is an opportunity cost with the time that I have lost.

Re. bad weather... no it isn't NR's fault (though you could perhaps claim that the infrastructure should be maintained to withstand a bit of wind or rain - but that would be a topic of an endless debate) but most delays I am aware of are either train failures, OHL failures (NXEC anyone??), track/point/signal failures or overrunning engineering works. All attributable to someone. And if this is criminal damage, surely Network Rail are insured against associated costs?

Phoenix, why so tetchy about people claiming back from a train operating company or Network Rail for whatever reason? No one is robbing old grannies here, just claiming what they're entitled to.

 

[Jim]

Spot on. I don't think there's anything wrong with claiming... rail travel is pretty expensive and if you don't get the service you're promised, for whatever reason, then why not claim. As far as I'm concerned if I am delayed through no fault of my own, there is an opportunity cost with the time that I have lost.

Re. bad weather... no it isn't NR's fault (though you could perhaps claim that the infrastructure should be maintained to withstand a bit of wind or rain - but that would be a topic of an endless debate) but most delays I am aware of are either train failures, OHL failures (NXEC anyone??), track/point/signal failures or overrunning engineering works. All attributable to someone. And if this is criminal damage, surely Network Rail are insured against associated costs?

Phoenix, why so tetchy about people claiming back from a train operating company or Network Rail for whatever reason? No one is robbing old grannies here, just claiming what they're entitled to.

And a reply to my point?

 

[me123]

...most delays I am aware of are either train failures, OHL failures (NXEC anyone??), track/point/signal failures or overrunning engineering works. All attributable to someone. And if this is criminal damage, surely Network Rail are insured against associated costs?

I know someone who was on a scotrail train when there were signalling failures affecting almost all services from Queen Street. He was 20 minutes late into Perth but what annoyed him most was that he was delayed another 20 minutes for a crew change.

Now, I know the crew need a break, but that was Scotrail's fault. Had that happened to me, I'd definatley be claiming.

My policy is only to claim if the service has been bad during the delay (no information and so on) or if I miss an appointment or something. So far, I've claimed for neither reason, but i think I've been lucky.

 

[Royston Vasey]

And a reply to my post?:grin:

Yep sorry, re your previous post: well, clearly I'm not the saint my fellow posters are...

I have not claimed for a fatality for the record, signal or points failures on the two occasions I have claimed. Maybe in the circumstances of the fatality I may think again Jim, yes.

But aren't the relevant companies insured against this loss?

Interesting the attitude against train companies, I wonder if the attitude would be the same for claiming against other corporations, like banks, McDonalds, chemical companies. It could be said that some chemical leaks may be due to weather conditions, not the company concerned but the company will still be fined. And they claim from their insurers to cover the compensation claim. They should have assumptions as to the occurrence of such incidents built into their business models if they are run responsibly.

I'm not totally insensitive to situations, but as I said before, I don't feel I really owe TOCs anything given the increasing cost of rail travel and how much the passenger is squeezed for every penny!

Just asking some people (those who are enthusiasts rather than employees of the rail industry) to think about whether they're treating this industry differently just because it's their hobby? Only playing devil's advocate, I do have some sympathy for some situations.

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail all!

Due to the danger of this spiralling off topic, I'm not going to say TOO much, but I think you can safely infer that you're typing what most of us are thinking!

<Off_topic>
True...And I have an awful lot to say on this kind of subject, but I'll keep that out of this thread otherwise we'll all wind up losing track of the original point! hock:

Given the tricky and volatile nature of political topics though, I'm going to run the idea for such a topic past the moderation team before I make a new thread of it in General Discussion. 8)
</Off_topic>

Back to the original point: I'll make a bit of an addition to expand on my previous post, and clarify what I will and won't usually claim for:

Stuff that I will normally claim for:

• Delays caused due to late traincrew,
• Delays through badly planned operation,
• Delays through low-speed running (Without engineering works),
• Delays through missed timetabled connections,
• Consequential loss caused due to TOC/ATOC/NR fault delays as outlined above.

Stuff that I'll not normally claim for:

• Delays directly attributable to fatalities or tragedy/injury/on-board illness,
• Leaves on the line,
• Delays caused by meterological conditions,
• Delays caused by unavoidable diversions (Such as having to "work around" a collapsed tunnel),
• Delays through industrial action (Where I'll claim against the union concerned insted),
• Delays less than one hour, except where a good timetabled connection (Minimum 30 minutes) was missed.

Personally, I hate this "let's grab, grab, grab" culture that we're in, and therefore normally try to make a stable judgement on any claim before sending it in.
Indeed - Thinking about it - Wouldn't it be better that the general public not know about the right to such compensation? If it was widespread knowlege, then chances are everyone would be claiming for every single delay exceeding 29m 59s, and virtually every TOC would become bankrupt! hock:ad:

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[djw1981]

Yes, every time. Whether the cut off be 30 minutes or 45.

Reasons: [mostly a, but some b)
a) I was a student traveling on a YP railcard, and the vouchers came in handy for more trips / money saved - the money grabbing attitude!
b) delay meant I had to get a taxi instead of a bus to get to my destination on time (interview) thus the compensation offset my additional expenditure
Delay repay is built into business models of both NR and TOCs. They get the money back anyway since it is paid in vouchers, so I always claim.

 

[digitaltoast]

Personally, I hate this "let's grab, grab, grab" culture that we're in, and therefore normally try to make a stable judgement on any claim before sending it in.
Indeed - Thinking about it - Wouldn't it be better that the general public not know about the right to such compensation? If it was widespread knowlege, then chances are everyone would be claiming for every single delay exceeding 29m 59s, and virtually every TOC would become bankrupt!

I think that's rather the point I'm making! We pay some of the highest fares in return for some of the worst service in Europe.
I claim BECAUSE it costs the companies money. If levels of claims became so high that the only solution was to get a working service, you can be sure some shareholders payouts would go down and service would go up!

I know for a fact (unless the bloke was lying) that it was only through "high levels of customer feedback) that Bombardier were forced to repair the faulty air conditioning on their wretched Voyager "trains". So, complaining in this case actually cost the company not much, but the people who made the wrecks in the first place (if I understood him right).

As for the person (not going to quote or name names so it's not seen as a personal attack) talking about "you are sick if you claim for a fatality".
Sorry, but what a stupid argument! How does my NOT claiming help the person?!
It's like saying I'm a bad person for going on an £800 holiday to the Bahamas for £250 a month after 9/11.
99% of people could see that without people like me taking a risk, that third world country would have suffered even more. Are you the one percent who thought I was "taking advantage of people dying"? (I kid you not, someone emailed me that very comment...)

Yes, every time. Whether the cut off be 30 minutes or 45....
Delay repay is built into business models of both NR and TOCs. They get the money back anyway since it is paid in vouchers, so I always claim.

Good point!

 

[AlexS]

I'll claim for anything also because I am becoming increasingly annoyed at the huge fare rises being inflicted upon me.

It's not like it's the traincrew involved I'm screwing over, it's the TOC, and as a result, I don't give a monkeys.

Cross Country in particular repeatedly and persistantly annoy me (111 standard class seats only now on some journeys including peak ones since their introduction of always empty first class on 2 car 170s already underspecced not to mention ridiculous fare restrictions that hit local journeys on local trains) and as a result it makes me extremely happy to get whatever I can off them regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Techniquest]

I don't always claim, but sometimes this is because I have forgotten or, rarely, because I've benefited from getting on a train I hadn't planned to get.

One time I was going to claim my money back from a journey on which I'd been severely delayed on a broken-down train missing multiple booked connections as a result. Unfortunately, someone had chucked my tickets into their wardrobe (!) without telling me and by the time I found them when I helped them clear it out it was far too late to do anything.

Other times I've gotten the forms to do it but completely forgotten to do the claim. Other times I've lost/damaged the tickets to send off.

I have got a claim in with AXC because of the 119 minute delay (discussed elsewhere), which was the fault of NR mainly thanks to their dodgy track circuits, but since (as Death has identified) you can't claim again NR directly you have to do it through the TOCs. I'm still waiting for a reply.

On the other subject Death writes about, I wholly concur. Someone else mentioned about where the riots are. To which I have no answer but it is something I've wondered about too. It's high time we had some riots on a nationwide scale. The whole country is in recession, of which most of us would be in no doubt. So why then, this morning, was it announced we were giving America £5 BILLION to help them through the collapse of the Lehman brothers' bank? We could have done with that money over here! Inflation is at 4.6% (well higher than the 2% it should be), yet we're too busy giving billions to the Yanks! There are staff over here of that bank who have been made redundant, who have mortages to pay and families to support but the government doesn't help them, the people who need the help on our side of the ocean. America is an enormous place, it can sort themselves out!

Rant over for now!

 

[Mojo]

I agree with others. Generally I'll claim because of the high cost of my fare in many cases. It's generally worse if no alternative public transport is arranged or if information is poor.

On the other hand - I am sometimes grateful that I am travelling by train as opposed to another method of transport. When I used to travel by bus, there were a few occasions when I could have been waiting over an hour for a service and you don't even get an apology, let alone a refund. I've also been hit by a few delays when flying and the same applies. At least, in many cases, the railways keep you well informed, will often arrange alternative transport and/or overnight accommodation (if required) and you even have the opportunity to claim some compensation!

 

[P156KWJ]

Honestly and no offence but did you claim because either.

1.It actually bothers you about being late and you feel you should be given the money.

2.Your not actually bothered whether you was late or not but you might aswell get the money if there gonna give it to you because it's really a plus cause you got to your destination for alot cheaper.

Sorry just curious and no offence intended.

don't worry none taken. It's probably a combination of both really, and I sometimes feel that TOCs have enough money to give away to the passengers. And I rarely get severely delayed trains. This is the first time I've had to write this year.

 

[digitaltoast]

So why then, this morning, was it announced we were giving America £5 BILLION to help them through the collapse of the Lehman brothers' bank?

I also notice only a few people questioning why were are GIVING £800 million in aid to India over the next two years, which...

created millionaires at the fastest pace in the world in 2007. Growing them at a blistering pace of 22.7 per cent, India added another 23,000 more millionaires in 2007 to its 2006 tally of 100,000 millionaires measured in dollars, according to an annual Merrill Lynch Cap Gemini report

Just think what £400 million extra per year could do for our rail network.

But I've done a BIG rant about this on another forum (click to read full sordid details).
The only thing keeping me cheerful is the knowledge that Gordon Brown is in his final few weeks now! (Those chickens certainly came home to roost with a vengeance!)