Do we need bus stations?

[wintonian]

...or are they just outdated vanity show-pieces?

It disturbs me to read that both Salisbury and Amesbury bus stations are soon to close.

According to the story on the Omnibuses blog

Ah, the delightfully named Endless Street. Over the years, as someone familiar with Salisbury’s 1930s example—both at platform level and upstairs—I would question why on earth a private company would wish to spend time, effort and above all so much money maintaining a public facility that, let’s face it, was past its sell-by date even at privatisation, 25 years ago. It’s actually a credit to what was then known simply & effectively as Wilts & Dorset that they have struggled manfully for so long to keep the place going. Even so, you can hardly say it’s attractive. So it is that it’s time has come.

The blog does give mention to the fact that both Bournemouth and Southampton have been without bus stations for many years, the former due to a fire in 1976 and it's replacement that nobody has ever got round to building, and the later due to the building of a shopping centre, though I seem to remember the bus people were asked if they wanted a new one and they declined. I feel the current situation of scattered stops in Southampton is confusing and quite unsatisfactory.

Every time a bus station is threatened with closure, passengers and the public look on as if it’s the end of the world. It isn’t. If a city the size of Southampton with scattered stops can manage after the closure of the West Marland bus station, so can anyone. Bournemouth’s survived without a central bus station from the 1976 fire that closed much of it and later resulted in its demolition. This in spite of periodic calls for one. And I am sure readers can cite examples from their parts of the world where bus stations have gone, following either so-called asset stripping or downsizing or both.

At least there is both a Portacabin and a travel shop in Southampton whereas Solent Blue Line moved out of Eastleigh bus station and closed the shop in Southampton (since replaced by a box open less often), then there is Lymington only a small town but still has a well used bus station, although most of the buses aren't that frequent and could easily terminate outside the rail station where Wilts & Dorset have a small depot.

Are bus stations a necessity, perhaps only sometimes? Are they desirable or is this system of scattered stop sufficient?

 

[Ze Random One]

Bus Stations have four main advantages over the on-street alternatives:

1. They provide an organised central focus, often for both the services calling at the bus station and nearby. That means those unfamilar with the local transport geography get a useful starting point, even if they actually need city buses which run from the neighbouring streets.

2. People taking infrequent, longer-distance services (like rural services) value somewhere to wait which is sheltered (and preferably heated), and not in competition with passers-by. Street-based stops will find this difficult to provide with the same efficacy.

3. Interchange between buses (and coaches) is much more readily afforded when they all come into the same place. Trying to explain that you need to go two street across for your connection to x is much more difficult than "Use Stand T over there"

4. Bus stations provide facilities for buses to lay-over, for drivers to change, or see to their personal needs, or consult with supervisors. By abandoning bus stations, this either has to be done on-street, or at an outlying depot, which can decrease the efficiency of this process.

I should note that this action is in stark contrast to the significant investment we have seen in bus stations elsewhere in the country (Tyne and Wear, Bristol, Bath, Manchester, Slough...), where the dingy old bus stations have been renewed, refurbished or replaced to become light and welcoming environments.

In the case of Salisbury, the only way I would substantially support this would be if the rail station were to become a proper transport interchange, with most rural bus services not currently travelling down Fisherton St continuing on to the rail station to terminate there.

 

[radamfi]

Easy interchange between services is critical as many if not most potential journeys cannot be undertaken by direct services alone. However, it is not necessary to build large structures for buses like we do in the UK. What counts is how easy it is to change between buses and between buses and trains.

 

[Harlesden]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

 

[overthewater]

YES we do!

 

[causton]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

Northampton Greyfriars is just a bit too far away from the railway station... :P

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Blackpool has been currently experiencing uncoordinated service "terminal" provision since the demise of Talbot Road bus station. Visitors disembarking at the town railway station, wishing to make an onward bus connection, are seen wandering "zombie-like" around the town centre area trying to find the bus stop which will be served by the bus service they require.

 

[Hyphen]

Despite a large number of Swansea's public transport downfalls (mostly thanks to First Cymru) the probably-not-that-new-now bus station is a real highlight. A few retail outlets (and somewhere to get a bacon butty first thing!!) and a nice, bright, dry location to interchange.

Whilst it was being built I had to regularly trudge halfway across the city; that's no fun.

 

[Liam]

I'd hate trying to find the right bus in Glasgow if there was no bus station. 50 odd stands, all well used, serving destinations all over the country. It makes journeys easier, meaning there is no need to walk across the city centre from one set of stops to another.

 

[overthewater]

There were plans to cause alot of trouble in Glasgow, by after alot of fuss got the axe, thankfully.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...n-to-cover-city-bus-station-is-axed-1.1050951

 

[EM2]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

The Chequers in Maidstone, the Victoria (and arguably the Broadmarsh?) in Nottingham, the Pentagon in Chatham.

 

[6Gman]

I'd hate trying to find the right bus in Glasgow if there was no bus station. 50 odd stands, all well used, serving destinations all over the country. It makes journeys easier, meaning there is no need to walk across the city centre from one set of stops to another.

How many bus stations does Glasgow have these days?

 

[vicbury]

I should note that this action is in stark contrast to the significant investment we have seen in bus stations elsewhere in the country (Tyne and Wear, Bristol, Bath, Manchester, Slough...), where the dingy old bus stations have been renewed, refurbished or replaced to become light and welcoming environments.

Both Bristol and Bath bus stations really are nice, far better than what they replaced. Both have cafes (Bristol's also has a shop) and provide a focal point for country services. Bath is a particularly good case for integrated bus services with both city and country services serving the bus station. Moreover, with the opening of the plaza in front of the railway vaults, the walk between the bus and train stations in Bath is about 30 seconds. It doesn't get much more integrated than that! If the bus station in Bath was removed, there really wouldn't be anywhere for the city and country services to terminate, there simply aren't enough streets in the city centre.

 

[dvboy]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

Merry Hill

 

[gnolife]

Merry Hill

and Trafford Centre.

 

[Mojo]

There is also a bus station at Cribbs Causeway near Bristol.

 

[Ze Random One]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

Bluewater, Lakeside*, Cribbs Causeway, The Galleries (Washington), White Rose (Leeds), Glasgow Fort, Liverpool ONE, Newcastle Eldon Square**, Basingstoke Festival Place, Peterborough Queensgate...

*although Lakeside has a rail station at Chafford Hundred, this is at the other end of the mall from the bus station.
**again Eldon Square Bus Station is not adjacent to either Haymarket or Monument metro stations, although it's only a 5 minute walk to either.

 

[Liam]

How many bus stations does Glasgow have these days?

Just the one.

Buchanan Bus Station

 

[wintonian]

Poole is next door to the Dolphin centre, although it may be 5 - 10 min to the rail station I find it a pain to get to.

Coventry.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I assume FCC fan was refering to out-of-town style shopping centres, where the bus station serves little, if anything, else aside from the shopping complex itself. Some of the stations mentioned so far are more like town/city centre bus stations that just happen to be adjacent to a town/city centre shopping centre. If it was the latter that FCC fan was reffering to, then the list of bus stations with a shopping centre nearby, but no nearby rail/metro station could be rather large...

 

[wintonian]

Bus Stations have four main advantages over the on-street alternatives:

1. They provide an organised central focus, often for both the services calling at the bus station and nearby. That means those unfamilar with the local transport geography get a useful starting point, even if they actually need city buses which run from the neighbouring streets.

2. People taking infrequent, longer-distance services (like rural services) value somewhere to wait which is sheltered (and preferably heated), and not in competition with passers-by. Street-based stops will find this difficult to provide with the same efficacy.

3. Interchange between buses (and coaches) is much more readily afforded when they all come into the same place. Trying to explain that you need to go two street across for your connection to x is much more difficult than "Use Stand T over there"

4. Bus stations provide facilities for buses to lay-over, for drivers to change, or see to their personal needs, or consult with supervisors. By abandoning bus stations, this either has to be done on-street, or at an outlying depot, which can decrease the efficiency of this process.

I agree with your points, but clearly the people a Go-ahead think that staff only need to converse at the beginning/ end of their shift.

I should note that this action is in stark contrast to the significant investment we have seen in bus stations elsewhere in the country (Tyne and Wear, Bristol, Bath, Manchester, Slough...), where the dingy old bus stations have been renewed, refurbished or replaced to become light and welcoming environments.

Well lucky everyone else! we've been waiting for a new bus station for about 20 years now - most of the current one has been condemned for at least that.

The three nearest newish bus stations I can think off to here are 1, Basingstoke (not that I would really call it a bus station, more of an unneeded service yard that someone had the idea to use for buses instead), Slough and Bath. I don't count Boscombe - not having had any facilities for at least a decade.

All the rest were either pulled down some years ago or are falling down of their own accord.

In the case of Salisbury, the only way I would substantially support this would be if the rail station were to become a proper transport interchange, with most rural bus services not currently travelling down Fisherton St continuing on to the rail station to terminate there.

Your right getting to & from the rail station is a PITA, why more city services don't call there I don't know - but then there's a lot of things I would like to do to Salisbury rail station, starting with platform 1 for example.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I assume FCC fan was refering to out-of-town style shopping centres, where the bus station serves little, if anything, else aside from the shopping complex itself. Some of the stations mentioned so far are more like town/city centre bus stations that just happen to be adjacent to a town/city centre shopping centre. If it was the latter that FCC fan was reffering to, then the list of bus stations with a shopping centre nearby, but no nearby rail/metro station could be rather large...

I take it we don't count Heathrow Central (bus station) then? - Though I have no idea how to get to Heathrow Central (rail station) from it.

 

[starrymarkb]

I take it we don't count Heathrow Central (bus station) then? - Though I have no idea how to get to Heathrow Central (rail station) from it.

The rail station is underneath the bus station. IIRC for the Picc line there is a moving walkway to the tube station.

 

[34D]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

Not sure how we define 'bus station' ie whether it has to have certain facilities, but the bus station/bus point for the White Rose shopping centre (West Yorks) has the same open air stops as Brent Cross does.

 

[Blindtraveler]

scrubbing bus stations for a Visually impaired user like me would be a nightmare. Even if said station isnt staffed there are always other pax and bus drivers to ask for assistance to find my service.

 

[Greenback]

Swansea and Llanelli have had new bus stations int he last couple of years, but the contrast between them could not be greater due to the differences in size between the two places.

Swansea is all covered, with shops, seating areas, electronic information displays and staff who are there to assist passengers.

Llanelli is basically half a dozen shelters at the side of a private road in front of a new cinema.

Despite the differences, the two do provide a focal point for the local buses, an area set aside for public transport where waiting passengers do not interfere with other passers by, and where interchange between routes is facilitated.

The point is that bus stations do not necessarily need to be grandiose affairs, but it is important to have some sort of centralised facility for the benefit of passengers.

 

[A0]

The rather large bus station at Brent Cross Shopping Centre serves neither Underground nor NR station. Are there any other instances of a bus station being purely for a shopping centre with no non-bus interchange facility?

Both of the bus stations in Ipswich are nowhere near the railway station - and not that close to each other for that matter.....

 

[dvboy]

Birmingham seems to cope pretty well without a bus station. Every stop has a code and there are maps at every stop to tell you which buses stop where. The city is divided into five coloured zones each serving buses in specific directions.

 

[fairysdad]

The blog does give mention to the fact that both Bournemouth and Southampton have been without bus stations for many years,

Bus Stations have four main advantages over the on-street alternatives:

1. They provide an organised central focus, often for both the services calling at the bus station and nearby. That means those unfamilar with the local transport geography get a useful starting point, even if they actually need city buses which run from the neighbouring streets.

3. Interchange between buses (and coaches) is much more readily afforded when they all come into the same place. Trying to explain that you need to go two street across for your connection to x is much more difficult than "Use Stand T over there"

I would probably say that the way buses use Gervis Place in Bournemouth is like number 3. It's not quite a bus station exactly, but pretty much all the buses of Bournemouth use that street either at the start, the end, or at somewhere in the middle of their journey, and the stops are lettered; most tourists are probably making their way back to the railway station to either catch a train or coach back home and the vast majority of buses from the town side of the street go via the railway station.

I would argue that Bournemouth does have a bus station, it's at the railway station. This is where coaches leave from, where buses leave from, and of course it's where the railway station is. The main problem is for tourists who, of course, want to go to the beach (and to be honest, there's little else in Bournemouth for tourists to go to), and when they leave the railway station you see all these bus stops for all the suburbs of Bournemouth, and the two for the beach are tucked away under a bridge...

 

[Mike395]

Birmingham seems to cope pretty well without a bus station. Every stop has a code and there are maps at every stop to tell you which buses stop where. The city is divided into five coloured zones each serving buses in specific directions.

It does, however, have a coach station which offers a focal point for longer distance services - in a similar way to MK Coachway & others

 

[wintonian]

I would argue that Bournemouth does have a bus station, it's at the railway station. This is where coaches leave from, where buses leave from, and of course it's where the railway station is. The main problem is for tourists who, of course, want to go to the beach (and to be honest, there's little else in Bournemouth for tourists to go to), and when they leave the railway station you see all these bus stops for all the suburbs of Bournemouth, and the two for the beach are tucked away under a bridge...

Not if you live(ed possibly) in Boscombe, there used to be 2 buses an hour IIRC from the so called bus station there that would stop on Holdenhurst Road and nothing if you lived in Southbourne or that end of Boscombe.

I can't remember which buses it was (the old W&D Poole/ Wesbourne ones possibly?) but I used to find myself walking up to the Triangle from the Square to get them.

Anyway I find the Square gets rather clogged up in the summer when you've got hoards of tourists trying to get past the hoards of people waiting the bus.