Do WCML stations have a worse service under VTWC?

[A0]

Eh? Wolverhampton Station might not be smack bang in the middle of town like Walsall's, but it's not far at all! Google has it at 7 mins walk or 0.4 miles to the Mander Centre (if you consider that the main shopping area). Slightly less to Dudley Street, the main high street.

But if you're going somewhere to go shopping, you don't want a 10 minute trudge from the station, particularly if it's chucking down with rain. And that's on the way there - if you're laden with shopping a couple of hours later, you don't want to be dragging that 10 minutes up the road until you get to the station.

That, perhaps, is why the bus is more attractive - despite a slower journey it is more convenient.

Compare that '10 minute walk' with the situation at New Street or Moor Street where you're right by the shopping areas.

 

[al78]

But if you're going somewhere to go shopping, you don't want a 10 minute trudge from the station, particularly if it's chucking down with rain. And that's on the way there - if you're laden with shopping a couple of hours later, you don't want to be dragging that 10 minutes up the road until you get to the station.

That, perhaps, is why the bus is more attractive - despite a slower journey it is more convenient.

Compare that '10 minute walk' with the situation at New Street or Moor Street where you're right by the shopping areas.

People are soft in this country.

A 10 minute walk is routine for me to get food from Tesco or the village shop. A 10 minute bike ride gets me into town for the rest of my shopping or leisure activities. Double that time and I get to my allotment. When I am in Manchester it can be a 10 minute walk from where I get off the bus to the shop I want to visit. I have appropriate clothing to deal with different weather conditions. Unless you are made of sugar a bit of rain won't harm you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While New St is in the Brum shopping area it is at one end - it probably takes 10 minutes to walk to the other end. Same with Liverpool Central/Lime St (though you can of course start shopping from one station and return from another).

 

[CharlieSpotted]

While New St is in the Brum shopping area it is at one end - it probably takes 10 minutes to walk to the other end. Same with Liverpool Central/Lime St (though you can of course start shopping from one station and return from another).

Hell, when the passenger flow is against you, it can sometimes take 10 minutes to walk from the B end of the platforms to the A end, up the stairs and out of the station!

(If you were looking to get to the nearest exit for Bullring)

 

[CharlieSpotted]

That, perhaps, is why the bus is more attractive - despite a slower journey it is more convenient.

The bus station is basically next to the train station. Getting the bus Walsall-Wolves instead of the train might save you 1 minute of that 7 minute walk. You're really talking about very small margins here, on very short walks.

 

[B&I]

HS2 Phase 2B is the correct answer.

Takes (effectively) a number current Pendolinos/Voyagers out of Crewe (and off Winsford-Weaver) and sticks them in a tunnel instead. Hence making regional services like this more feasible.

But of course some people say "HS2 only saves rich London businessmen 10 (sic) minutes getting to Birmingham"....

This is of course how HS2 should have been sold from day one. And it's why I'm in favour of the basic concept, even if I'd quibble heavily with parts of the route, some of the engineering methods, elements of the proposed service patterns, and most pertinently for this thread, the lack of thought given to mak8ng it part of an enhanced overall piblic transport network by co-ordinating improvements to local rail and other public transport with the positioning of HS2 calling points.

 

[Bletchleyite]

HS2 is basically a Swiss/German style Neubaustrecke, primarily built to free capacity rather than to get people to London faster, that is a useful side effect.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Can we all please get back on topic please by continuing to argue whether Nuneaton, Lichfield, Tamworth, Milton Keynes etc should get or not get more fast trains stopping, it's a bit like Brexit but far more entertaining

 

[adrock1976]

...plus the elongated stand at Wolverhampton is deliberately there as performance recovery before the train enters the West Midlands "proper".

Wolverhampton is already part of the West Midlands, so don't know where you got that idea from.

As a point of information, Wolverhampton is inside the present day West Midlands metropolitan area (the former West Midlands County Council that existed from 1974 to 1986). Before then, it was part of Staffordshire.

The present day European Parliament West Midlands Region includes the shire counties of Staffordshire, Shropshire, Warwickshire, Herefordshire, and Worcestershire as well as the 1974 creation of the West Midlands County Council area.

On a final point, I am originally from the West Midlands before anybody jumps on me.

 

[A0]

People are soft in this country.

A 10 minute walk is routine for me to get food from Tesco or the village shop. A 10 minute bike ride gets me into town for the rest of my shopping or leisure activities. Double that time and I get to my allotment. When I am in Manchester it can be a 10 minute walk from where I get off the bus to the shop I want to visit. I have appropriate clothing to deal with different weather conditions. Unless you are made of sugar a bit of rain won't harm you.

If you want to walk in rain - fine. But not all of us do. Equally some people don't want to spend 10 minutes walking to or from a shop - they possibly have better things to do with their time - I certainly do - and have no desire to make the journey getting to and from slower or more protracted.

If you want to waste your life spending 10 minutes walking to the shops - fine, but don't criticise those who feel they've got better things to do with their time.

 

[A0]

The bus station is basically next to the train station. Getting the bus Walsall-Wolves instead of the train might save you 1 minute of that 7 minute walk. You're really talking about very small margins here, on very short walks.

Not if the bus runs past the end of your road, which is a 10 minute walk to Walsall station at the other end though.....

 

[pt_mad]

Are the Euston to Liverpool via Northampton and Birmingham services going to be any more than 4 cars? As how can they run a full 8 car all the way up that route? Yet it's desired that 4 car working on the south WCML will cease in the not too distant future.

A the service could be in operation as easily as December, with the merging of the current separate diagrams.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anything running via Northampton can (and mostly does) drop 4 off if needed.

 

[pt_mad]

Anything running via Northampton can (and mostly does) drop 4 off if needed.

But don't 8 car trains run to and from Birmingham New Street in the peak? Hows that going to work?

 

[A0]

But don't 8 car trains run to and from Birmingham New Street in the peak? Hows that going to work?

The platform length problems are on the Potteries line, so potentially run as 12 throughout split at New Street I guess? Send 4 north to Stoke and beyond, send 8 south back to London?

 

[The Planner]

12 on the Coventry corridor is going to require locking out complete units at every station apart from Coventry and International.

 

[dangie]

....If you want to waste your life spending 10 minutes walking to the shops - fine, but don't criticise those who feel they've got better things to do with their time.

I'd be interested to know what 'better' things you have to do with your time, and more to the point, why walking for 10 minutes you consider to be a waste of your life?

Walking is actually good for you, you know....

 

[pt_mad]

The platform length problems are on the Potteries line, so potentially run as 12 throughout split at New Street I guess? Send 4 north to Stoke and beyond, send 8 south back to London?

Do any 8 car Desiros actually run to Liverpool at the moment?

Because if it's 4 cars maximum on the Birmingham to Liverpool, but 8 cars is desired on London to Birmingham, and one diagram an hour will join the two to form one working (i.e. one though train an hour), not sure how it would work?

Surely they're not going to want to be coupling and uncoupling at New St if the purpose of through working is to reduce platform dwell time at New St.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do any 8 car Desiros actually run to Liverpool at the moment?

Some stations can't take more than 4 cars (eg Winsford, Penkridge).
Even Liverpool South Parkway can't take 8.
Further south, some local stations on the line can't take 8: Dudley Port, Adderley Park, Stechford.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even Liverpool South Parkway can't take 8.

The short-sightedness of building South Parkway with platforms shorter than 240m[1] amazes me given the huge sum spent on the rest of it - it is certainly not a station on the cheap. If you're going to build a station like that you might as well future-proof it.

[1] 12x20m or 10x24m is probably, 11-car Pendolinos and the Cally aside, the longest classic line train we are likely to see. It would probably have made sense to go to 260m to allow an 11-car Pendolino to be accommodated, thinking on.

 

[thenorthern]

The Chase Line has/hasn't got better as there were through trains from Birmingham to Stafford via Walsall which were removed to increase capacity in 2008 but at the same time there more trains running now.

 

[MG11]

How many trains per hour ran from London to Liverpool in Intercity days?

 

[thenorthern]

I think may people have incorrect memories of the Trent Valley West Coast services pre-2008 as the Virgin Trains map doesn't differentiate between regular services and limited services, it wasn't possible to get a train from Tamworth to Stafford for example without knowing what time you wanted to come back as there was sometimes several hours between trains.

 

[Ianno87]

How many trains per hour ran from London to Liverpool in Intercity days?

I recall in the early/mid 90s it was c. every 90 minutes during the day, with extras in the peak.

 

[MG11]

I recall in the early/mid 90s it was c. every 90 minutes during the day, with extras in the peak.

Mildly improved then.

 

[Leo1961]

How many trains per hour ran from London to Liverpool in Intercity days?

1976 Euston – Lime Street
Mondays - Saturdays 16 (00 50) (07 50) (08 50) (09 50) (10 50) (11 50) (12 50) (13 50) (14 50) (15 50) (16 50) (17 35) (18 30) (19 30) (20 30) (23 15)

1986 Euston – Lime Street
Mondays – Fridays 10 (07 50) (10 20) (11 30) (13 00) (14 30) (16 55) (17 55) (19 25) (20 50) (23 50)

 

[Ianno87]

Mildly improved then.

Journey time considerably reduced too, of course.

 

[anti-pacer]

The Chase Line has/hasn't got better as there were through trains from Birmingham to Stafford via Walsall which were removed to increase capacity in 2008 but at the same time there more trains running now.

Speaking of the Chase Line, following the Rugeley electrification, wouldn't it make sense to run a local service from Crewe to Birmingham this way? Maybe Crewe-Alsager-Kidgsrove-Stoke-Stone-Rugeley TV-Rugeley Town-Hednesford-Cannock-Walsall-Birmingham NS.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Speaking of the Chase Line, following the Rugeley electrification, wouldn't it make sense to run a local service from Crewe to Birmingham this way? Maybe Crewe-Alsager-Kidgsrove-Stoke-Stone-Rugeley TV-Rugeley Town-Hednesford-Cannock-Walsall-Birmingham NS.

I thought that was the plan? + Barlestone / Wedgewood too, which will be reopened at somepoint during the course of the franchise.

 

[The Planner]

Rugeley North Jn is a killer and you will struggle to get them through Colwich.