Do ticket gates cause conflict?

[neonison]

I've no particular issue with barriers but there needs to be an option for those with Rovers, travel warrants and other non-standard tickets to enter and egress the system. More than once I've found myself locked in or out for no other reason than I've been issued a ticket from something other than a ticket office or on-line agency which though perfectly valid is not recognized. In these circumstances I'm left with the option of climbing under/over or waiting for the single member of staff who's on his/her break.

 

[PeterC]

Given the calibre of most gateline staff who would let you through with a library card that would be pointless.

In the days of BR I went through the Liverpool Street gateline several times using my building pass. The building security never let me in using my season ticket though!

 

[Chrisgr31]

They work perfectly fine in London. The network would completely fail without them, and everyone is used to them so it goes well.

I am not sure they work perfectly well. They work better on London Underground because most people are using some form of card or a day ticket, with only a relatively small proportion of people using a longer term paper ticket.

On the National Rail network where most people are using paper based tickets there are regularly issues where tickets are swallowed, or rejected which can cause the inadvertent passing through barriers of the person behind is too quick at opening barrier. It also causes issues as the person with the faulty ticket tries again or has to come out and look for the manned barrier.

It's also not great at surburban stations particularly in the peak home where you tend to have a big influx of passengers every 10, 15, 20 or whatever minutes and only a couple of barriers to process them. What regularly happens in my experience is someone uses their ticket in the wide access gate and lots of people just follow through.

The gates are also often open at both ends in off-peak hours which does potentially lead to abuse if there is no on-board checking.

 

[bb21]

I've no particular issue with barriers but there needs to be an option for those with Rovers, travel warrants and other non-standard tickets to enter and egress the system. More than once I've found myself locked in or out for no other reason than I've been issued a ticket from something other than a ticket office or on-line agency which though perfectly valid is not recognized. In these circumstances I'm left with the option of climbing under/over or waiting for the single member of staff who's on his/her break.

There should be no need to climb the barriers, indeed it is not permitted, valid ticket or not.

No gateline should be unattended while in operation. They may be remotely monitored, in which case you need to show the operator your ticket through a camera.

If gates are left unattended then it needs to be reported to the relevant operator.

 

[Antman]

I've no particular issue with barriers but there needs to be an option for those with Rovers, travel warrants and other non-standard tickets to enter and egress the system. More than once I've found myself locked in or out for no other reason than I've been issued a ticket from something other than a ticket office or on-line agency which though perfectly valid is not recognized. In these circumstances I'm left with the option of climbing under/over or waiting for the single member of staff who's on his/her break.

In todays H&S obsessed climate how on earth can that be allowed? I would take the matter up with the relevant operator asap.

I know one of the staff at Bromley South and they are under strict instructions never to leave the gates closed and unattended, if they have to nip off to the loo or whatever and there is nobody else to cover they must be left open.

 

[neonison]

No gateline should be unattended while in operation. They may be remotely monitored, in which case you need to show the operator your ticket through a camera.

Haymarket, Edinburgh with Scottish Central Rover. Imperial Wharf, West London with Zone Travelcard. In neither case was there anyone nearby. Yes, I did try showing my ticket to the camera but nothing happens. It's like waiting at broken Temporary Traffic Lights at roadworks, how long is it reasonable to expect someone to wait?

As for being illegal to jump/crawl your way out, I'd like to know if that had ever been tested in court on someone with a valid ticket.

 

[daikilo]

In my opinion, bunching at gates happens for several reasons
1) the access aisle to the gates is far wider than the gates themselves meaning that by definition there will be bunching
2) speed through the gate can depend on the type of ticket and of course causes blockage if the ticket is rejected
3) some people are just slower than others (such as with baggage)

Of the above, (1) is the easiest to address although could just move the bunching (rather like in a large car park). In larger stations the (2) and (3) could be by dedicated gates e.g. (a) touch, (b) card and paper scan, (c) (2) but with baggage. The number of gates in each category could be varied depending on queue length and/or time of day. The advantage would be that those who can go through fast will be less impeded. It doesn't solve the issue of a rejected ticket but hopefully that only blocks one gate at a time.

 

[cuccir]

Gates should work perfectly well *provided* there are enough of them, they are laid out effectively rather than just rammed into the space available, where the tickets are properly coded and issued and staff are properly trained on the equipment and on crowd control.

Well, this really.

I commute Durham-Newcastle. At Newcastle, the gates are fine - there are loads of them, the queues rarely back up, and they're left open when there's disruption on services to help flows. It'd be good if there were some between the platform 1 and the concourse, rather than making passengers walk down platform 2, but other than that they work pretty well.

At Durham, though, they're a right nuisance - platform 1 has only 3 exit barriers, which quickly back-up with even a few people. Staff at it are unable to sell tickets (which I've found to be a problem travelling from unstaffed-at-the-weekend Chester-le-Street, only a 6 minute journey so guards often don't get down the train) and it's just a bit annoying.

So yes - good if implemented well, but that is a bit of an 'if'.

 

[talltim]

I'm glad I very rarely go anywhere with ticket barriers. Sheffield seems to have been put in the 'too hard' bin and Chesterfield, well I have no idea where they would put them

 

[RJ21]

I'm glad to see I am not alone in disliking them, having travelled in Europe and rarely encountered them but seen the revenue protection in action I don't see the need for them on anything other than high flow, uniform travel pattern, routes. Long distance makes as much sense as a shark in a hat. Try crossing Berlin without a ticket and see how far you get. Today I have been through three manual checks, one open line of barriers and TfL barriers with my Oyster, to add to the on train checks which happened on VT but not Northern (paired 142s). Using an Oyster on the H&C from Euston Sq to West Ham makes perfect sense. But barriers on VT et al?

 

[Antman]

I'm glad to see I am not alone in disliking them, having travelled in Europe and rarely encountered them but seen the revenue protection in action I don't see the need for them on anything other than high flow, uniform travel pattern, routes. Long distance makes as much sense as a shark in a hat. Try crossing Berlin without a ticket and see how far you get. Today I have been through three manual checks, one open line of barriers and TfL barriers with my Oyster, to add to the on train checks which happened on VT but not Northern (paired 142s). Using an Oyster on the H&C from Euston Sq to West Ham makes perfect sense. But barriers on VT et al?

I suspect the main for having them on long distance trains is to hopefully prevent anybody getting on with the wrong ticket? Once on a train out of Kings Cross first stop York with a ticket to Stevenage it's too late.

 

[Hellfire]

They seem completely hit and miss at Euston. Some weeks I get off my VT service from Preston and the barriers are open, other days they are closed.

I really can't see the point for travellers arriving on a long distance service. My ticket gets checked when I arrive at the platform at Preston and the TM does a train check after leaving Warrington which is the last stop before Euston.

Then you find yourself with a suitcase and a small carry bag having to dig out your ticket because the barriers are closed. Very annoying.

 

[stut]

I suspect the main for having them on long distance trains is to hopefully prevent anybody getting on with the wrong ticket? Once on a train out of Kings Cross first stop York with a ticket to Stevenage it's too late.

Except that the train on the next platform may be a GN Peterborough stopper, or a VTEC stopping at Stevenage...

 

[sheff1]

I suspect the main for having them on long distance trains is to hopefully prevent anybody getting on with the wrong ticket?

At Paddington the idea is to stop people getting on with the right ticket .

 

[redbutton]

I've no particular issue with barriers but there needs to be an option for those with Rovers, travel warrants and other non-standard tickets to enter and egress the system. More than once I've found myself locked in or out for no other reason than I've been issued a ticket from something other than a ticket office or on-line agency which though perfectly valid is not recognized. In these circumstances I'm left with the option of climbing under/over or waiting for the single member of staff who's on his/her break.

As others have said, you should never have to wait for a member of staff. If they leave for any reason, they're meant to leave at least one of the gates open.

The only exception would be if there's a nearby help point, similar to this.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I suspect the main for having them on long distance trains is to hopefully prevent anybody getting on with the wrong ticket? Once on a train out of Kings Cross first stop York with a ticket to Stevenage it's too late.

The problem with this example is that a Travelcard will open the gates to the main line platforms at King's Cross because some suburban departures do leave from those platforms...

 

[PeterC]

In larger stations the (2) and (3) could be by dedicated gates e.g. (a) touch, (b) card and paper scan, (c) (2) but with baggage.

The problem about special gates for people with baggage is that people with baggage refuse to use them. On the majority of trips that I make in London I see some (expletive deleted) trying to ram a huge wheelie case through the standard gate rather than use the special gate provided.

 

[Antman]

The problem with this example is that a Travelcard will open the gates to the main line platforms at King's Cross because some suburban departures do leave from those platforms...

Yes, Euston would probably have been a better example, my ODTC wasn't accepted through the barriers and the bloke asked where I was going, when I said Harrow & Wealdstone he opened the gate for me but that should hopefully prevent somebody ending up at Warrington on an oyster card!

 

[gsnedders]

The problem about special gates for people with baggage is that people with baggage refuse to use them. On the majority of trips that I make in London I see some (expletive deleted) trying to ram a huge wheelie case through the standard gate rather than use the special gate provided.

If you're in a thick crowd just off a terminus station, it can be impossible to see where any wider gate is!

Personally, I'm still fond of gates that default to open and close only when someone approaches without having presented a valid ticket—it means people don't hesitate as they present the ticket but keep walking at a constant speed through the barriers, which avoids a lot of bunching.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I commute Durham-Newcastle. At Newcastle, the gates are fine

snip

At Durham, though, they're a right nuisance

Interesting experience, because my experience at Newcastle is usually very different. Virgin have absolutely no interest in staffing the barrier by platforms 9-12, meaning that the queues at the main ticket line back up very quickly, especially on the trains from London.

Durham, though, is something else. It's taken me ten minutes to get off the platform there before now.

The only place it is worse is Euston platforms 8-11. I think my record there is 13 minutes from getting off the train to entering the subway to the tube ticket hall. About five exit gates for a 12-car 350, with a Birmingham departure going from the next platform. Genius.

As for whoever installed the gates at Bradford Interchange- all of one entrance gate and one exit gate, for one of the busiest stations in Yorkshire- they want beating with a wet fish.

 

[najaB]

Do ticket gates cause conflict?

No. People cause conflict. Next.

 

[HH]

No. People cause conflict. Next.

QFT. It's a troll thread.

Might as well ask if trains cause conflict; seen more rucks about getting on trains than I have of getting through ATGs.