Do the Pendolinos First Class coaches ever get full?

[phil35]

Everytime I see a pendo, I am amazed at how much of the train is comprised of first class coaches. Do these coaches actually get? They must do I guess - otherwise surely they'd have de-classified a couple of them by now!

By the way, I never really travel on Virgin trains so I'm not really clued up on them.

 

[ainsworth74]

I am led to believe that during the peaks out of Euston that first class is normally full (and sometimes full and standing). Which as you suggest is why they have not been de-classified even though the 390s are crying out for more standard class capacity.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

On weekends, you could probably get every first class passenger comfortably inside J and K (though staff like to have K to themselves). If you were to fill a carriage table by table, you could get rid of G as 1st, I would have thought with ease. They declassified G for July-September in 2008 I think to cope with the summer demand, and I don't think it harmed 1st at all...

5:4 is too 1st class heavy, 6:3 would be about correct.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes - evening peak out of Euston. I often get on at the FC end and walk through looking to "borrow" the paper from the FC section. It can be quite full - must be terrible for them!

 

[sprinterguy]

On weekends, you could probably get every first class passenger comfortably inside J and K (though staff like to have K to themselves). If you were to fill a carriage table by table, you could get rid of G as 1st, I would have thought with ease. They declassified G for July-September in 2008 I think to cope with the summer demand, and I don't think it harmed 1st at all...

5:4 is too 1st class heavy, 6:3 would be about correct.

The extension of a number of the Pendolinos to eleven carriages will help to right the balance at a ratio of 7:4 for standard class against first class.

The proportion of first class to standard class on a Pendolino is pretty silly, but nonetheless it can get very busy during busy times, even at weekends on certain services where cheap first class advance fares are available.

 

[RAPC]

The morning and evening peak services are usually full or near capacity to and from London on the Manchester and Preston / Scotland services. The Manchester services do sometimes have a bit of capacity, presumably more down to the frequency, but the Preston / Scotland services are usually pretty full at peak times despite rarely offering much in the way of discounted 1st Advanced fares.

At weekends the Liverpool and Preston / Scotland services are usually pretty full in 1st class from my experiences of them, but the loads are generally a lot lightly on the Manchester services again due to the frequency.

 

[Dreadnought]

5:4 is too 1st class heavy, 6:3 would be about correct.

I seem to recall that in the late 80s early 90s when the Euston - Birmingham/Wolverhampton diagrams were Mk2 sets they were formed of 4 FOs, 1 RFM and 5/6 TSOs suggesting that this is nothing new.

 

[rail-britain]

I travel on the weekday 04:28 Glasgow to Euston quite often
Usually this leaves Glasgow with less than 20 passengers and I am usually the only one in First Class
At Carlisle the First Class is about 10% full
Preston is where everything changes, typically with 100% full

The 16:30 Euston to Glasgow is completely the opposite
It can be about 20% full to Preston, thereafter I can often be the only person left in my coach
Although last week it had all four passengers to Glasgow around one table, we soon corrected that!

 

[VideozVideoz]

As the 1st class tickets (anytime or season) can be expensive, do you get a refund if you can't get a seat? I'd be very annoyed if I had to stand after paying the 1st class fare.

 

[Lad Brookes]

I travel on the weekday 04:28 Glasgow to Euston quite often
Usually this leaves Glasgow with less than 20 passengers and I am usually the only one in First Class
At Carlisle the First Class is about 10% full
Preston is where everything changes, typically with 100% full

The 16:30 Euston to Glasgow is completely the opposite
It can be about 20% full to Preston, thereafter I can often be the only person left in my coach
Although last week it had all four passengers to Glasgow around one table, we soon corrected that!

I travelled on that from Preston a few Mondays ago. My carriage was about 70% occupied- enough for me not to have my first choice of seat type, and had to travel with my back to travel.

 

[All Line Rover]

Liverpool to London trains in the morning peak can also be quite full (over 90% sometimes).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I travel on the weekday 04:28 Glasgow to Euston quite often
Usually this leaves Glasgow with less than 20 passengers and I am usually the only one in First Class
At Carlisle the First Class is about 10% full
Preston is where everything changes, typically with 100% full.

It's notable that there are LOADS of £34 FC tickets between Glasgow and Preston on Pendolinos, (the cheapest FC ticket available) and yet almost none further south!

 

[ApAp]

As the 1st class tickets (anytime or season) can be expensive, do you get a refund if you can't get a seat? I'd be very annoyed if I had to stand after paying the 1st class fare.

Not sure about Virgin, but you do on East Coast. Seems only fair.

 

[All Line Rover]

As the 1st class tickets (anytime or season) can be expensive, do you get a refund if you can't get a seat? I'd be very annoyed if I had to stand after paying the 1st class fare.

Virgin don't have an official policy, but their Customer Relations department can be very generous with compensation. Even for Standard Class customers they always offer more than the measly "official" 5% - usually they offer about 25% - and they'd certainly give more to First Class customers since they don't want to annoy them and lose their custom!

 

[185]

It was 1:6 on Arriva Transpennine 158s
1:5 on the 185s

But when the maintenance fell on the First TPE 158's in 2006, the middle coaches would often vanish, leaving a train with over 1:4! Utter chaos.

However, if that 'heap' of a 2car voyager at Crewe ever gets a compressor to enter service, that will be 1:1

 

[ApAp]

Virgin don't have an official policy, but their Customer Relations department can be very generous with compensation. Even for Standard Class customers they always offer more than the measly "official" 5% - usually they offer about 25% - and they'd certainly give more to First Class customers since they don't want to annoy them and lose their custom!

25% is measly compared to East Coast:
http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/about-us/passengers-charter1/Seat-guarantee-scheme/

 

[All Line Rover]

25% is measly compared to East Coast:
http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/about-us/passengers-charter1/Seat-guarantee-scheme/

Not really. Virgin usually give 25% when you have not reserved a seat and couldn't get one, whereas East Coast only give 100% when you have reserved a seat. If you have reserved a seat with Virgin and it was not available (for whatever reason) they usually give a 100% refund too.

 

[ApAp]

Not really. Virgin usually give 25% when you have not reserved a seat and couldn't get one, whereas East Coast only give 100% when you have reserved a seat. If you have reserved a seat with Virgin and it was not available (for whatever reason) they usually give a 100% refund too.

How do you prove it if you were on a busy train?

 

[All Line Rover]

How do you prove it if you were on a busy train?

You can't really "prove" it, although you could perhaps get your ticket "stamped" by the Train Manager. Virgin's Customer Relations department do work on the basis that people aren't lying, and since they know which trains are usually the busiest, you will be detected eventually if you're telling porkies - such as saying that the 21:07 London to Liverpool service was full and standing!

 

[Failed Unit]

You can't really "prove" it, although you could perhaps get your ticket "stamped" by the Train Manager. Virgin's Customer Relations department do work on the basis that people aren't lying, and since they know which trains are usually the busiest, you will be detected eventually if you're telling porkies - such as saying that the 21:07 London to Liverpool service was full and standing!

When you hear stories about the London - Scotland services in the summer and the declassified 1st coach, I think they have a good idea which ones have the problems...

 

[Old Timer]

Yes - evening peak out of Euston. I often get on at the FC end and walk through looking to "borrow" the paper from the FC section. It can be quite full - must be terrible for them!

You should work for one of the Infrastructure Companies, Old chap. Then you could afford to buy a paper

 

[bengolding]

The 11:30 Euston to Glasgow earlier today had G declassified when I boarded at Preston.

I find the lightest loadings in First tend to be on the off peak xx03 Euston-Birminghams and xx50 return. They would get far more users of First at off peak times if they introduced a flexible First Off Peak fare like XC, EMT and FGW. It's just ridiculous having to pay for First Anytime tickets on off peak trains if you want flexibility in First and Virgin have themselves to blame for that. I often get around it by finding First Off peak tickets priced by XC on Virgin routes, e.g. Birmingham-Edinburgh FOR is £429 but a First Off Peak Return is £250.50, also available on the faster Virgin service. Interestingly, a Birmingham-Glasgow FOR is *only* £339 as it's priced by Virgin, also allowing travel via Edinburgh!

 

[rail-britain]

As the 1st class tickets (anytime or season) can be expensive, do you get a refund if you can't get a seat? I'd be very annoyed if I had to stand after paying the 1st class fare.

Yes, you are entitled to 50% of the single journey or half the face value
This is more common where Coach G has to be declassified leaving Glasgow, passengers from Preston onwards can often end up not finding a seat, sometimes arguing that their seat in Coach G is already taken

 

[premier01]

Yes - evening peak out of Euston. I often get on at the FC end and walk through looking to "borrow" the paper from the FC section. It can be quite full - must be terrible for them!

So that's where all the papers go then

I sometimes get on a peak time Pendolino with a 1st class ticket and it's very busy but always have found a seat-which is more than can be said for most EC peak time services I've been on recently-guess the ideal would be to have a ticket priced between standard and 1st for the quiet day time services on VT-these would be assigned to Coach G-there would be no catering-or free newsapers-or lounge access but customers would get to travel in 1st class seat with guaranteed table.

About £15 premium would be about right-guess issue is there are so many cheap advance tickets that not many people would buy Anytime tickets for travel when it's quieter like the afternoons.

 

[ian959]

Over the past three years of visits to the UK, I have spent a load of time on Pendos and there often seems no rhyme or reason to the volume of business in First Class.

Been on early morning trains from WVH to EUS and they have been chockers from WVH in first, other times I have been sitting just about alone in first on the same time train the next day! Morning peak trains ex BHM and evening peaks ex EUS are usually chockers but even then I have been on trains which have been barely 50% full in first in those peaks. Once caught a Sunday train ex WGN heading south and it was packed in first class - no idea why. Been on services ex GLC which have been empty in first then they fill up at LAN and PRE and are pretty much full to EUS.

This is mostly in winter so I would hate to think what it can get like in summer!

 

[rich.davies]

Whats first class like on a pendolino from lime st on a saturday afternoon? Im going down on one next saturday in coach K.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Oh, don't sit in Coach K, that's the staff coach :roll:

 

[All Line Rover]

Whats first class like on a pendolino from lime st on a saturday afternoon? Im going down on one next saturday in coach K.

I frequently have it to myself on Saturday mornings (for just £5 too)!

 

[bnm]

I often get on at the FC end and walk through looking to "borrow" the paper from the FC section.

I assume you take it back after reading it? If not the correct word would be "steal".

 

[voyagerdude220]

I used to travel on Pendos alot more than I have done recently. Almost all of my journeys are between Preston and Glasgow, thanks to the higher volume of "ok priced" advance firsts heading north from Preston, compared to Preston to Euston runs.

I often catch the 08:15 ex Preston, to enjoy the full english breki- I find this train to vary quite alot, but more recently it's been around 50-60% full judging by where i've sat.

The majority of southbound runs i've had have been similar, but to be honest, I don't actually notice how busy my particular Pendo is, for the simple reason that I find the seating arrangements on Pedos very good in FC- in that the positioning of pillars behind seats gives the seats an added level of privacy IMO.

 

[ajdunlop]

I often wander how much nicer it would be in the 4 coach XC voyagers if FC didn't exist and instead a SC seating layout was used. Of course there is the other option of not having stupid small 4 coach voyagers!!