Do penalty fares apply on rail replacement buses?

[najaB]

One thing that's always surprised me is that if revenue guards aren't operating trains why they don't have to "conduct" replacement buses instead.

They don't have traction or route knowledge....

 

[StoneRoad]

Next time I use either the Conwy or Tyne Valley RRB services, I'm going to have a watch for this.

The only RRB service I used recently (and not that recently !) was during the various WCML blockades. Ticket was via CAR and it was checked on boarding the first of three. Nothing was said in warning, but the last coach dumped everybody at PRE and there was nothing going further north. Luckily, I was able to get someone to come and meet me - but others were left "muttering into beards" and wandering off into the night.

 

[1B85]

A long time ago the line to Lincoln from Nottingham was being replaced and there was a rail replacement bus service for about six months. I certainly remember tickets being sold and checked for that...

 

[londonbridge]

Only ever been on RRB's on Southern and SWT/SWR routes but never seen a ticket check on either.

 

[fowler9]

I think it does depend where the RRB is. Running round central Liverpool for example, you would expect checks really, as the locals would otherwise just be catching them for free in place of the normal buses! Otherwise, any RRB I have caught has either no check, or is more just to check you are getting the correct bus.

Not really mate. Central Liverpool is compact enough that most locals wouldn't waste their time waiting for a RRB. As for Parkway to Lime Street RRB's hardly anyone uses them. I use them from West Allerton because I am daft.

 

[PeterC]

Beyond the gateline I assume, or on a station with no gateline, I assume the train itself.

All the penalty fare stations that I have seen that are without gates have a painted line to demarcate the area in which penalty fares apply

 

[Bletchleyite]

All the penalty fare stations that I have seen that are without gates have a painted line to demarcate the area in which penalty fares apply

That's a station with a compulsory ticket area, where you can be PFed for simply being beyond that line without a valid ticket. Not every TOC operates those, and they can't exist at stations where at least one TOC is not operating Penalty Fares, particularly where that TOC has services to that station where payment can be made on board due to no facilities at stations.

At other stations, a PF is only due if you have travelled on a Penalty Fare TOC's trains.

 

[221129]

All the penalty fare stations that I have seen that are without gates have a painted line to demarcate the area in which penalty fares apply

No they don't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not really mate. Central Liverpool is compact enough that most locals wouldn't waste their time waiting for a RRB.

Agreed, basically nobody uses Merseyrail for journeys within central Liverpool and that would remain true even if it were free. Most don't even bother changing to the Wirral Line to connect between Lime St and the Northern Line, they just walk across to Central (and that is included on any through ticket crossing Liverpool). A connection can easily be made (though unofficial) in under 10 minutes. It takes longer to use the Wirral Line, you can only do it in even the same time if you use the lifts at both ends.

 

[sheff1]

All the penalty fare stations that I have seen that are without gates have a painted line to demarcate the area in which penalty fares apply

I have travelled to/from scores of Penalty Fare stations without gates, none of them had this painted line.

 

[scrapy]

All the penalty fare stations that I have seen that are without gates have a painted line to demarcate the area in which penalty fares apply

I've only seen this on the Tyne and Wear Metro not on National Rail.

 

[Mojo]

In SWT days I did witness RPIs at Hounslow checking tickets as people boarded replacement buses and sending ticketless passengers to go and buy one.

SWT even went to the effort of installing standalone validators out the front of certain stations where there were semi-regular bustitutions. This seems to be in contrast to the policy of other operators of offering customers a free ride, but only on the basis that they have a valid ticket, CPC or Oyster card with sufficient credit (but not actually charging anything).

All the penalty fare stations that I have seen that are without gates have a painted line to demarcate the area in which penalty fares apply

I have travelled to/from scores of Penalty Fare stations without gates, none of them had this painted line.

I've only seen this on the Tyne and Wear Metro not on National Rail.

London Overground and DLR also have the red line painted at stations without gatelines.

On National Rail, LO aside, a very tiny number of stations have areas designated as a Compulsory Ticket Area, and many Tocs that operate Penalty fares have no such designated stations whatsoever.

 

[richw]

Today I went with a specific aim to bash some rail replacement buses. Truro to Penzance and St Erth- St Ives.
Done around 8 movements by rail replacement. RPIs checking tickets at Truro and Penzance at entrance to bus. Intermediate stations were all come as you please. Couple of people flashed tickets at the bus driver who had no interest in the ticket, but gave a thanks without looking at the ticket

 

[bunnahabhain]

Generally I find revenue protection doesn't apply, let alone PFs. One thing that's always surprised me is that if revenue guards aren't operating trains why they don't have to "conduct" replacement buses instead.

Because its not in the job description, and we're usually on other trains which are running. Buses usually take a lot longer than trains so diagrams wouldn't work.