Do NR arrange big practice exercises involving multiple TOCs that simulate a major incident in real time?

[800001]

Many thanks for the responses everyone, and I know a lot more about train crew rosters and breaks now.
However, what I've read in the thread does rather circle me back to the decision that was made by Avanti control was stupid and the wrong call, and it's cost them tens of thousands of pounds in delay repay.
Does anyone scrutinise these decisions after the event? I noticed the word 'panicked' to describe their reaction upthread, so surely some review of decision making, as part of learning, must take place?

mods note - split from here

Avanti shenanigans at Preston again today 13/11

According to what I can see, 9S44 0633 Euston - Edinburgh arrived at Preston at 1006 (16 late) and was cancelled, due to late running train crew (YJ)(who were obviously still stuck somewhere between Carlisle & Preston due to the earlier problems) 9M50 was 91 late into Preston. Then, presumably...

www.railforums.co.uk

No decision is 'stupid or wrong' to the person making a choice at a time with lots of pressure and multiple situations to deal with.
None of us on here know the background to what prompted that decision to be made.
Just because people on here do not agree with it, doesn't make it stupid or wrong.

Of course, with all 'incidents', and weather events there will always be an after action review, with people from across the TOC, including control taking part, they will go through the good, the bad and the ugly of that day.

Remember controllers sometime have seconds to make a choice, and yes, on occasions it can ultimately be a 'wrong' choice.

 

[D1511]

No decision is 'stupid or wrong' to the person making a choice at a time with lots of pressure and multiple situations to deal with.
None of us on here know the background to what prompted that decision to be made.
Just because people on here do not agree with it, doesn't make it stupid or wrong.

Of course, with all 'incidents', and weather events there will always be an after action review, with people from across the TOC, including control taking part, they will go through the good, the bad and the ugly of that day.

Remember controllers sometime have seconds to make a choice, and yes, on occasions it can ultimately be a 'wrong' choice.

Thanks, and noted, and on reflection, 'stupid' wasn't the right word, although I still believe 'wrong' probably is.
I'm also glad to hear that lessons learned exercises take place.
Do NR arrange big practice exercises involving multiple TOCs that simulate a major incident in real time, like local authorities, the military and others do? If so, has anyone taken part in one, and would they like to share?

 

[800001]

Thanks, and noted, and on reflection, 'stupid' wasn't the right word, although I still believe 'wrong' probably is.
I'm also glad to hear that lessons learned exercises take place.
Do NR arrange big practice exercises involving multiple TOCs that simulate a major incident in real time, like local authorities, the military and others do? If so, has anyone taken part in one, and would they like to share?

Yes, NR and TOCS do do simulation incidents.
I myself took part in one, this 'involved' a very serious incident, and was all about how we dealt with the incident and the day to day running at the same time.

 

[D1511]

Yes, NR and TOCS do do simulation incidents.
I myself took part in one, this 'involved' a very serious incident, and was all about how we dealt with the incident and the day to day running at the same time.

That sounds fascinating. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at something like that. I've done emergency planning in a Local Authority, and also for London 2012, and it's the best means of testing decision making under pressure and, just as importantly, the lines of communication between all the players and operatives on the ground.
They're also incredibly complicated to set up as an exercise, so I'd love to hear more about how NR set these up, and what sort of scenarios are generated and how they are simulated.......

 

[Horizon22]

Yes such "table-top exercises" periodically take place. I've been involved in a few myself.

Individual TOCs may also do a review of incident(s) as well at a more localised level. As well as general feedback to those involved in an incident.

You have to be careful not to turn such things into a "parade of the hindsight police" though because it is one thing to review an incident and any lessons learnt with the benefit of plenty of time, all the facts available and quite another to make on-the-fly decisions, in a complex and very busy environment with only partial information available and multiple unknown consequences.

 

[RUK]

Thanks, and noted, and on reflection, 'stupid' wasn't the right word, although I still believe 'wrong' probably is.
I'm also glad to hear that lessons learned exercises take place.
Do NR arrange big practice exercises involving multiple TOCs that simulate a major incident in real time, like local authorities, the military and others do? If so, has anyone taken part in one, and would they like to share?

Yes, they do - see:

Major incident simulation excercise held in Norwich in July

Back in July, a simulated major incident excercise was held to help emergency services and rail staff ensure they are better prepared, should a real event happen. Greater Anglia have published a video about it on YT. It's unlisted, as its primary audience is people in the industry. Greater...

www.railforums.co.uk

Greater Anglia hosted it, but there are other TOCs listed as attending at the end of the video.

 

[30907]

Yes, they do - see:

Major incident simulation excercise held in Norwich in July

Back in July, a simulated major incident excercise was held to help emergency services and rail staff ensure they are better prepared, should a real event happen. Greater Anglia have published a video about it on YT. It's unlisted, as its primary audience is people in the industry. Greater...

www.railforums.co.uk

Greater Anglia hosted it, but there are other TOCs listed as attending at the end of the video.

Quite. However, a majorincident exercise would be about something more serious than whatever issue prompted the query about a delay at Preston