Do drivers of Guarded Trains make announcements?

[LowLevel]

That's rather off-topic but I would add that on all the flights I've made this year the pilot has made at least one pre-take off announcement detailing expected departure time and any anticipated delays as well as expected flight duration, a pre-landing announcement describing local weather conditions and a post-landing announcement welcoming us to wherever we had just arrived at, also a further announcement if we were going to be delayed getting to our stand. The cabin crew would not be privy to much of that information as it's the cockpit who are in contact with air traffic control in a similar manner to the driver being in contact with the signaller.

The guard isn't cabin crew on an aircraft. They don't work the same way. Certainly at my TOC the driver will talk to the signaller, but the guard will talk to TOC control who will also be in contact with NR control. That is why the guard and driver talk to each other. The guard isn't necessary listening out to what the driver might decide to come out with depending on what they're doing at the time - IE potentially talking to control on the phone.

There is no need for the driver to directly provide information to the passengers on a guard operated train.

I've had it happen to me once, and I was furious with the person at the front because they hadn't cleared what they were saying with me first and I had to wait 3 minutes for them to stop waffling on before I could tell them to shut up on the cab to cab. The reason - the signaller had told them that hopefully a fatality was simple and we might be going forward before too much longer.

The reality - in the mean time it had been declared a complex case needing SOCO as I'd been informed by the controller I was on the phone to when the driver decided to start waffling to the public. Consequently I needed the driver to get authority to make a wrong direction movement and sort that with the signaller for the train to be terminated and me to start sorting the information I need for rail replacement to begin to be provided.

On a guard operated train I am the company representative in charge of looking after the passengers and I do not need to learn anything by listening to the train driver happily chatting on the PA.

With a half decent guard the driver can add nothing on the PA that the guard shouldn't be doing themselves following a conversation with the driver and taking into account the other sources of information available to them.

I don't mean any of this in a rude way either but in a guard operated train you work as a team as a train crew. There is nothing to be added by the driver blindsiding the guard.

That's not to say there is never a place for the driver on the PA, in consultation with the guard. I was once working a train which hit someone on the track who survived. My driver who was rather shaken was absolutely brilliant at talking to the passengers whilst I was off down the track with the first aid box attending to the person we'd hit. A perfect example of team working in an emergency.

 

[theironroad]

I’ve made a couple of announcements regarding delays. It’s frustrating to give the guard a load of information about what’s going on, only for them to make no announcement at all, so occasionally I just step in and do it myself.

Exactly.

Tbf, most of the guards I work with these days will relay to pax if they've not already known/done so, but used to be really annoying when relaying info to a guard and then....silence...

Also, these days, often the guard gets calls/emails/map access and has more clue about what is going on than driver, unless driver can actually see it (eg conflicting move) or signaller has deigned to speak to driver rather than "wait".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2023 ==

The guard isn't cabin crew on an aircraft. They don't work the same way. Certainly at my TOC the driver will talk to the signaller, but the guard will talk to TOC control who will also be in contact with NR control. That is why the guard and driver talk to each other. The guard isn't necessary listening out to what the driver might decide to come out with depending on what they're doing at the time - IE potentially talking to control on the phone.

There is no need for the driver to directly provide information to the passengers on a guard operated train.

I've had it happen to me once, and I was furious with the person at the front because they hadn't cleared what they were saying with me first and I had to wait 3 minutes for them to stop waffling on before I could tell them to shut up on the cab to cab. The reason - the signaller had told them that hopefully a fatality was simple and we might be going forward before too much longer.

The reality - in the mean time it had been declared a complex case needing SOCO as I'd been informed by the controller I was on the phone to when the driver decided to start waffling to the public. Consequently I needed the driver to get authority to make a wrong direction movement and sort that with the signaller for the train to be terminated and me to start sorting the information I need for rail replacement to begin to be provided.

On a guard operated train I am the company representative in charge of looking after the passengers and I do not need to learn anything by listening to the train driver happily chatting on the PA.

With a half decent guard the driver can add nothing on the PA that the guard shouldn't be doing themselves following a conversation with the driver and taking into account the other sources of information available to them.

I don't mean any of this in a rude way either but in a guard operated train you work as a team as a train crew. There is nothing to be added by the driver blindsiding the guard.

That's not to say there is never a place for the driver on the PA, in consultation with the guard. I was once working a train which hit someone on the track who survived. My driver who was rather shaken was absolutely brilliant at talking to the passengers whilst I was off down the track with the first aid box attending to the person we'd hit. A perfect example of team working in an emergen

Speechless tbh.

 

[trebor79]

Shortly after the 755's were introduced I was on a train where the driver made an announcement. We were stood on the Breckland Line for some time near to Ely North. The driver came on the PA (and introduced himself as such) to explain what was going on and that we were being held up "by a late running STEAM train of all things!" First and only time I've heard a driver make a PA on a guarded train.

 

[LowLevel]

Exactly.

Tbf, most of the guards I work with these days will relay to pax if they've not already known/done so, but used to be really annoying when relaying info to a guard and then....silence...

Also, these days, often the guard gets calls/emails/map access and has more clue about what is going on than driver, unless driver can actually see it (eg conflicting move) or signaller has deigned to speak to driver rather than "wait".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2023 ==


Speechless tbh.

What's there to be speechless about? I've been around long enough to know that crew worked trains require teamwork. Occasionally the driver will need to get on with things that are generally the guards' job. Equally, the guard will occasionally need to do things that are normally left to the driver.

Otherwise, you work as a team. The driver looks after the train, the guard looks after the passengers. You confer and present a united approach with the driver leading on technical matters and the guard on customer care.

Personally when things go wrong I am delighted if the driver is happy to come and be another person in uniform to see and talk to the public, provided they stick to the message. I don't however expect it of them. 99/100 times they stay in their cab.

And my point is proven - it is almost unheard of for the driver to decide to start making customer service announcements on a guard operated train.

It would be seen as extremely odd to the point of being irregular at my TOC and I am aware of drivers at my TOC being spoken to by driver managers over making customer service announcements without speaking to their guard first.

I cannot think of any situation I've been involved in bar the one I've explained above which was quite exceptional where I think anything would be improved by the driver deciding to get on the PA to tell the passengers and guard something all at once.

And yes, I take the point about rubbish guards who just say nothing and hide. I subscribe to view that a bad guard is worse than no guard.

 

[thelongestroad]

I've had drivers make annoucements "for me" before - but they're drivers who work DOO and guarded trains. Never had it from a driver who works trains with a guard only.

 

[dk1]

Shortly after the 755's were introduced I was on a train where the driver made an announcement. We were stood on the Breckland Line for some time near to Ely North. The driver came on the PA (and introduced himself as such) to explain what was going on and that we were being held up "by a late running STEAM train of all things!" First and only time I've heard a driver make a PA on a guarded train.

We do do it now and again on 745/755s but as a general rule we tell the guard who makes the announcement as they are the customer facing role.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Dec 2023 ==

And of course we have other things to be doing up front

 

[Krokodil]

Guards guard, drivers drive. The guard usually knows more about what's going on than the driver does, often before the train has even stopped, never mind waiting for the signaller to answer.

Only times that I've known drivers to make announcements were "can the guard please contact the driver". Though some have triggered the recorded "we are waiting for our platform".

 

[skyhigh]

What's there to be speechless about? I've been around long enough to know that crew worked trains require teamwork. Occasionally the driver will need to get on with things that are generally the guards' job. Equally, the guard will occasionally need to do things that are normally left to the driver.

Otherwise, you work as a team. The driver looks after the train, the guard looks after the passengers. You confer and present a united approach with the driver leading on technical matters and the guard on customer care.

Personally when things go wrong I am delighted if the driver is happy to come and be another person in uniform to see and talk to the public, provided they stick to the message. I don't however expect it of them. 99/100 times they stay in their cab.

And my point is proven - it is almost unheard of for the driver to decide to start making customer service announcements on a guard operated train.

It would be seen as extremely odd to the point of being irregular at my TOC and I am aware of drivers at my TOC being spoken to by driver managers over making customer service announcements without speaking to their guard first.

I cannot think of any situation I've been involved in bar the one I've explained above which was quite exceptional where I think anything would be improved by the driver deciding to get on the PA to tell the passengers and guard something all at once.

And yes, I take the point about rubbish guards who just say nothing and hide. I subscribe to view that a bad guard is worse than no guard.

Fully agree with this - as a driver I leave the announcements to the guard 99% of the time. I will discuss with the guard what they want known and am happy to leave the cab and talk to passengers if needed though.

There are a couple of situations when I've had to make announcements (beyond the standard "could the guard please contact the driver"), for example we have a location where once in a blue moon you go bi-di into the opposite platform at a station to normal and given the stupid design of 195s where you have to move down the coach to do the doors at the other side I've done a "please be aware doors will open on the right hand side of the train at the next station" to give the guard a heads up.

The other was when we were involved in a fatality and the brand-new guard was unfortunately in shock so I had to do my best to look after the train, the passengers and the guard. But as you say, thinks like that are an exceptional circumstance.

When I was a guard it used to be a pet hate for drivers to make announcements. I remember once hearing something along the lines of "This is the driver speaking, I would like to remind those standing behind the front cab that it is illegal to smoke on board a train and if you continue the conductor will forcibly remove you at the next stop". So much for letting me tactfully deal with the problem...