District Line Passenger Information

[Belperpete]

Passenger information on the Wimbledon and Edgware Road branches seems to be very poor. This morning, waiting on the North bound platform at West Brompton, the platform indicator was displaying the trains as:
1. Check front of train
2. District Line
3. District Line
Well, I know that they are District Line trains, as they are all that there ever are from that platform. What people need to know is whether they are going to Edgware Rd or Barking/Upminster. If you forget to check the front (or side) of the train, then you can easily find yourself going the wrong way. The train that I caught today had no onboard announcement or display of its destination until just as the doors started closing at Earls Court, by which time it would probably have been too late had I not already gotten off.

I am certain that the platform displays at West Brompton used to know where the trains are going, but this situation appears to have been in place for awhile now. If they used to have the necessary information, why don't they have it now? If it is a temporary bug, why hasn't it been fixed by now? Or is this the new normal?

Then at Earls Court, there is a board full of Barking and Upminster trains due within the next 20 minutes, but apparently nothing to Edgeware Road within that time. Fortunately the platform announcer was making regular announcements that Edgeware Rd trains only get displayed when they are 5 minutes away. They are having to do this presumably to avoid passengers starting to panic that there is no service to Edgeware Road. Surely LU can do better than this? An indicator system that seems designed to mislead passengers. Again this situation seems to have become the new normal.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

This is likely the result of CBTC SMA5. The boards get train info from the signalling system, however the trains are not part of the signalling system until Fulham Broadway. This is likely to be an issue until the signalling system is further rolled out to Putney Bridge.

Re Edgware Road, I don't know why they don't show longer. The standard for CBTC boards is 20 mins from what I've personally seen.

 

[starlight73]

Re Edgware Road, I don't know why they don't show longer. The standard for CBTC boards is 20 mins from what I've personally seen.

I think the OP is talking about Earl’s Court - where trains only show up on the boards when they enter the CBTC signalling system like you said. (Therefore, the train is 5 mins away at Fulham Broadway).

I’m wondering why the same problem doesn’t exist at Earl’s Court with trains from Ealing/Richmond, which enter CBTC at Barons Court which is also about 5 mins away.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Presumably it'll be to do with the data feeds for the other signalling system. ie the LU system that runs west of Barons Court is almost certainly more advanced and up to date than the system south of Fulham Broadway

 

[Dstock7080]

One of the reasons why CBTC is to be extended to East Putney/Stamford Brook is to improve the prediction of platform information.

previous thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/interesting-information-at-east-putney.236598/#post-5848311

 

[Belperpete]

This is likely the result of CBTC SMA5. The boards get train info from the signalling system, however the trains are not part of the signalling system until Fulham Broadway. This is likely to be an issue until the signalling system is further rolled out to Putney Bridge.

So where did the boards get their info from prior to SMA5? And why can't they still get it from that source?

When is the signalling due to be rolled out to Putney Bridge? And will that resolve the problem, or just push it back to Putney Bridge?

 

[D7666]

PIS on the Wimbledon line has long been an issue and is not just related to CBTC migration it is a very long standing matter. I am not going to comment further.

 

[Belperpete]

PIS on the Wimbledon line has long been an issue and is not just related to CBTC migration it is a very long standing matter. I am not going to comment further.

But it certainly used to be miles better than it is now.

 

[bramling]

But it certainly used to be miles better than it is now.

Not sure that’s the case. For as long as I can remember things have been indifferent on the Wimbledon branch.

Others will know more, but what it seems to come down to is the interface between the NR and LU systems, and in particular that on the NR part there is no train description system that conveys destinations.

It won’t now help that, having gone from an interface between two systems, the branch now contains three separate systems, controlled from three separate locations.

Being honest I wouldn’t hold breath for improvements on this, I think it will be an issue long into the future, especially on the NR section.

 

[starlight73]

Still on the District line - a question from the linked thread above

Do they have the same issue at Richmond? Although if I am not mistaken don't all LU trains originating at Richmond run to Upminster?

I was at Kew Gardens a few weeks ago but unfortunately didn't notice what the train describers were showing, being distracted trying to get a picture of some Overground stock.

I think stuff like this sometimes happens on the Richmond branch as well. I use Gunnersbury semi-regularly, and for example, a District train

• Doesn’t turn up and just disappears
• Turns up 5 minutes earlier than expected (happy times )
• TfL Go app’s departure board is blank
• Train sticks on the board with no countdown, but doesn’t turn up

But it certainly used to be miles better than it is now.

I get why you feel this - the change in behaviour is noticeable due to the CBTC rollout (although the issues go back longer)

I get the impression that the system used to be:

NR → [East Putney] → LU (traditional)

and is now

NR → [East Putney] → LU (traditional) →* CBTC

* this may be a weak link but others will know more. Joining this link is probably complex as you have to make very old and new systems communicate, and it would not be cost-effective or quick, and the existing traditional signalling is in need of replacement. So the focus is on rolling out CBTC to East Putney:

NR → CBTC

(However AFAIK the CBTC rollout has been recently focused on the Metropolitan line)

 

[Belperpete]

Have to admit that I was surprised by what was being said on that thread. It would appear that there is a departure indicator at Wimbledon, presumably fed by some LU system, but that it is the drivers who actually decide which train leaves next! I can understand why BR/NR decided it wasn't really up to them, but surely it wouldn't be that difficult for LU to provide something to control the TRTS plungers?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Others will know more, but what it seems to come down to is the interface between the NR and LU systems, and in particular that on the NR part there is no train description system that conveys destinations.

It won’t now help that, having gone from an interface between two systems, the branch now contains three separate systems, controlled from three separate locations.

Is this why absolutely everything on the Wimbledon branch always shows up as 1I52 on Open Train Times?

 

[Dstock7080]

Is this why absolutely everything on the Wimbledon branch always shows up as 1I52 on Open Train Times

Yes, as was said in the other thread, NR Wimbledon SCC should produce an NR style reporting number for trains from Wimbledon based on the LU set number:
2Cxx for ‘City’ trains;
2Exx for Edgware Road trains.
These are not recognised by LU, either operationally by staff or by the transmission equipment at Putney Bridge.
It did work of sorts a few years ago, as the NR platform staff office at Wimbledon and the Earl’s Court control room did have a WARS (Wimbledon Areas Resignalling Scheme) monitor to show this information.

 

[starlight73]

Traksy link in case anyone wants it

TRAKSY.UK

Live train maps and timetables

traksy.uk

(use the menu on the left to switch between Wimbledon & Southfields signal boxes)

It seems that LU trains to Wimbledon don’t show up in RealTimeTrains or OpenTrainTimes - they aren’t part of the NR data feeds, which might explain why everything says 1I52 - unlike the Bakerloo to Harrow & Wealdstone

 

[AlbertBeale]

Have to admit that I was surprised by what was being said on that thread. It would appear that there is a departure indicator at Wimbledon, presumably fed by some LU system, but that it is the drivers who actually decide which train leaves next! I can understand why BR/NR decided it wasn't really up to them, but surely it wouldn't be that difficult for LU to provide something to control the TRTS plungers?

I think there's been a lack of destination detail on that line for many years now - my very occasional journeys from Fulham northwards did in each case (as far as I can now remember) fail to have reliable destination details at that point.

 

[D7666]

Wimbledon branch LU trains do not show as 1I52 on internal systems. Before posting I double checked internal systems, there is no 1I52 there, nor do all the trains in the same area have the same text, they are all different. It is the internal systems that provide data for pis. Not saying more, but that one is Barking (pun intended) up the wrong tree 1i52 on everything on external systems is a symptom of a different issue.

 

[Belperpete]

I think there's been a lack of destination detail on that line for many years now - my very occasional journeys from Fulham northwards did in each case (as far as I can now remember) fail to have reliable destination details at that point.

At West Brompton, the platform displays did match where the trains claimed to be going most of the time I travelled. Occasionally they would obviously get out of sync, and think that there was a train coming that never turned up, but most of the time they seemed to work okay - even on occasions when the staff were announcing to ignore them!