Disruptive passengers

[graham43404]

For the 2nd time in 4 days an East Coast train has been delayed by "disruptive passengers". This time being the 14:00 Kings Cross to Aberdeen.

http://pda.jcheck.com/eastcoast/problems?referer=home&incidentsSection=rail&type=service

It makes you wonder if it might have been rowdy football fans or someone who didn't take kindly to being told there advance fare is not valid on that train and they have to pay again.

 

[scotsman]

It makes you wonder if it might have been rowdy football fans or someone who didn't take kindly to being told there advance fare is not valid on that train and they have to pay again.

Folk from Dundee heading out for a perty!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14015850

 

[dk1]

For the 2nd time in 4 days an East Coast train has been delayed by "disruptive passengers". This time being the 14:00 Kings Cross to Aberdeen.

http://pda.jcheck.com/eastcoast/problems?referer=home&incidentsSection=rail&type=service

It makes you wonder if it might have been rowdy football fans or someone who didn't take kindly to being told there advance fare is not valid on that train and they have to pay again.

What a shame the crew & rest of the passengers are no longer permitted to kick their ar*e :roll:

 

[Flamingo]

We are in a no-win situation quite often, where we have to balance the likely delays against the behaviour and safety of the crew, other passengers, and the actual disruptive passenger themselves.

It's often best to carry them through to their destination / next major station and have a reception committee waiting, than to wait at an intermediate stop for police attendance.

Sometimes, however, that is not an option.

 

[Flying Snail]

We are in a no-win situation quite often, where we have to balance the likely delays against the behaviour and safety of the crew, other passengers, and the actual disruptive passenger themselves.

It's often best to carry them through to their destination / next major station and have a reception committee waiting, than to wait at an intermediate stop for police attendance.

Sometimes, however, that is not an option.

It is always a judgement call and you are absolutely correct, no matter how you deal with it there will inevitably be somone unhappy about it.

I must say though, I have learned from bitter experience that being too mindful of not delaying a service and letting the disruptive individuals think they are not going to be dealt with often makes them even worse.

I can think of a few situations where I have let people carry on with just a warning or not confronted people acting up where I have lived to regret it as they just escalated. On the other hand I have no regrets over the times I have just given a single ultamatim and on the next incident pulled the bus over turned the engine off and called the police.

 

[Bungle73]

For the 2nd time in 4 days an East Coast train has been delayed by "disruptive passengers". This time being the 14:00 Kings Cross to Aberdeen.

http://pda.jcheck.com/eastcoast/problems?referer=home&incidentsSection=rail&type=service

It makes you wonder if it might have been rowdy football fans or someone who didn't take kindly to being told there advance fare is not valid on that train and they have to pay again.

Seeing as I have journeys booked on EC trains in a few weeks this news is not something I wanted to hear. Thank God I booked First Class.

 

[Butts]

Seeing as I have journeys booked on EC trains in a few weeks this news is not something I wanted to hear. Thank God I booked First Class.

You may come across some hooray henrys on a bender so don't get to confident

Shame they don't still have the old van the parcels and bikes used to go in -could be utilised as a "mobile brig"

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I suspect this is the main reason why many people won't travel on public transport. Be it rowdy drunken chavs or rowdy drunken toffs, no-one in their right mind wants to be exposed to these idiots. Perhaps if the same laws that applied to airline travel (ie you go to prison if disruptive) were applied to train travel then things would be better.
I remember on one trip into Wales a couple of real lowlives got on the train at Chester. At Flint I saw them being booted off, not by the train staff but by some passengers. This was only last year.

 

[Flamingo]

It is always a judgement call and you are absolutely correct, no matter how you deal with it there will inevitably be somone unhappy about it.

I must say though, I have learned from bitter experience that being too mindful of not delaying a service and letting the disruptive individuals think they are not going to be dealt with often makes them even worse.

I can think of a few situations where I have let people carry on with just a warning or not confronted people acting up where I have lived to regret it as they just escalated. On the other hand I have no regrets over the times I have just given a single ultamatim and on the next incident pulled the bus over turned the engine off and called the police.

You are right there, I can think of a few occasions when I didn't act early enough and I was sorry that I had waited. It comes with experience, and I do think that the TOC's training is a joke on the subject. The "Conflict Avoidance" training we get is all about the TOC being able to say "We instructed you to walk away" if anything does kick off.

However, on the subject of delays, sometimes it's better to bring the train on to where help is more readily available than wait in the middle of nowhere for local plod (who will probably just let them go, in my experience) to turn up.

I must admit, I do not tolerate people interfering with other passengers. I give one warning (mostly), then they leave the train, to hell with the delays.

I do agree that if the unruly passenger get away with it once, then they do it again. And being drunk, or "just the lads having a larf" is NOT an excuse i accept.

 

[Greenback]

I despise the 'we woz only 'avin an larf' attitude. It normally means that the 'laughs' were all on the one side, and at the expense of the other people on the train.

 

[Flamingo]

I despise the 'we woz only 'avin an larf' attitude. It normally means that the 'laughs' were all on the one side, and at the expense of the other people on the train.

I have to say, South Wales is the worst for this, in my experience.

 

[bocaj]

I traveled to London twice last year on the ECML and with this news I think we were lucky. The journey was really good with no disruptive passengers. Although I have never had to experience disruptive passengers I know what you mean about them.
On the Last day of the Football season 2010 I went to see Leeds United get promoted to the Championship, we did not need to get the train to my Grandparents House but we did end up in Wakefield Westgate Station to see a steam train and some Leeds Fans got of a different Train, they sounded like they had been partying all the way from Leeds on the train, their was a very good reason to celebrate but they should have at least waited until they had left the train station to party!

Jacob

 

[attics26]

purely for accuracy can I point out the disruption was onboard 2G15 1803 Newcraigh - Edinburgh service which terminated at Haymarket. EC service was delayed 29 minutes waiting for clearance to proceed after police attendance.


Having said that todays 1200 Edinburgh - London delayed Doncaster due police attention to disruptive passengers (wonder if its miracle seeking Hearts fans?)

 

[Butts]

I have to say, South Wales is the worst for this, in my experience.

Are you singling out Llanelli as a hotspot with Greenback being the principle orchestrator of such activity

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Are you singling out Llanelli as a hotspot with Greenback being the principle orchestrator of such activity

Well, alcohol is banned north of Pontypridd / Bargoed on Valley line trains, I don't know if that says something...

 

[Greenback]

Are you singling out Llanelli as a hotspot with Greenback being the principle orchestrator of such activity

I must point out that I am extremely well behaved when travelling by train!

Except for one incident a long time ago involving a HST, a day out in Ireland with the boys and an anti maccassar...

 

[All Line Rover]

Well, alcohol is banned north of Pontypridd / Bargoed on Valley line trains, I don't know if that says something...

Alcohol should be banned on all trains - it would solve a lot of problems in my opinion.

Am I correct in saying that a TOC needs to pay significant amounts of money in "fines" when a train is delayed by more than 5/10 minutes? Would this still apply when you have "disruptive passengers?" I suspect it does, but I don't think it's a very good idea, as it discourages TOC's from properly dealing with disruptive passengers to avoid being "fined."

 

[Butts]

purely for accuracy can I point out the disruption was onboard 2G15 1803 Newcraigh - Edinburgh service which terminated at Haymarket. EC service was delayed 29 minutes waiting for clearance to proceed after police attendance.


Having said that todays 1200 Edinburgh - London delayed Doncaster due police attention to disruptive passengers (wonder if its miracle seeking Hearts fans?)

Speaking as a Hearts supporter I am expecting a 6-0 victory at White Hart Lane tonight.

I am also expecting the Government to announce the re-nationalisation of the railways in the morning :roll: Theres more chance of that happening !!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Alcohol should be banned on all trains - it would solve a lot of problems in my opinion.

Am I correct in saying that a TOC needs to pay significant amounts of money in "fines" when a train is delayed by more than 5/10 minutes? Would this still apply when you have "disruptive passengers?" I suspect it does, but I don't think it's a very good idea, as it discourages TOC's from properly dealing with disruptive passengers to avoid being "fined."

We all know prohibition doesn't work

TOCs are fined for anything after a minute's delay within their own control, and it isn't cheap.

 

[Butts]

I must point out that I am extremely well behaved when travelling by train!

Except for one incident a long time ago involving a HST, a day out in Ireland with the boys and an anti maccassar...

I take it the aforesaid incident did not involve substituting Andrex with the anti maccassar

 

[michael769]

Would this still apply when you have "disruptive passengers?" I suspect it does

It think "passenger disorder" is on the list of things that are out with the industries control.

 

[Flamingo]

Are you singling out Llanelli as a hotspot with Greenback being the principle orchestrator of such activity

No, not Llanelli - once you go through the Severn Tunnel it all starts to go wrong

 

[Chapeltom]

Alcohol should be banned on all trains - it would solve a lot of problems in my opinion.

Am I correct in saying that a TOC needs to pay significant amounts of money in "fines" when a train is delayed by more than 5/10 minutes? Would this still apply when you have "disruptive passengers?" I suspect it does, but I don't think it's a very good idea, as it discourages TOC's from properly dealing with disruptive passengers to avoid being "fined."

No, no, no! Alcohol banned on trains? The majority of people causing disruption when under the influence have already had enough BEFORE boarding the train. I've been on trains with various football supporters, QPR, Huddersfield, Manchester City, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Stockport County, Sheffield Wednesday, Manchester United, Southampton and NEVER experienced a problem - all those groups had either been/were drinking last time I boarded a train under the (severe ) influence I caused no problems and had had my drink in various pubs before boarding.

The morons who cause disruption when they have been drinking cannot handle the damn stuff. I've never once abused a member of the train crew when very drunk. Most members of society can handle their alcohol. I can hold a perfect conservation after a skinful in a quiet tone (slurred though ) and I'm 18, my age group is supposedly the worst of society yet I don't know anyone whose disruptive after a load of drink. True colours of people show through drink.

Its the passengers and not always the alcohol that causes the problem.

 

[Butts]

No, not Llanelli - once you go through the Severn Tunnel it all starts to go wrong

Which way

 

[Chapeltom]

Into Wales

 

[Flamingo]

The morons who cause disruption when they have been drinking cannot handle the damn stuff. I've never once abused a member of the train crew when very drunk. Most members of society can handle their alcohol. I can hold a perfect conservation after a skinful in a quiet tone (slurred though ) and I'm 18, my age group is supposedly the worst of society yet I don't know anyone whose disruptive after a load of drink. True colours of people show through drink.

Its the passengers and not always the alcohol that causes the problem.

To be fair, I find the most obnoxious drunks on-train are in the 40-60 age group. Old enough to know better!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Into Wales

Correct. Although some of the Pad=Reading crowd give them a run for their money on a Saturday night.

 

[Butts]

Into Wales

Greenback my beg to differ

 

[Flamingo]

Greenback my beg to differ

He wouldn't dare to, he lives here and sees them!

 

[Greenback]

He wouldn't dare to, he lives here and sees them!

Indeed, I have seen some truly appalling behaviour on South Wales trains, like the bloke who got on the 2345 to Fishguard, bounced off the wall and two seats, then promplty deposited a puddle of vomit on the floor. He then promptly collapsed into a seat and seemed quite annoyed that someone from the traincrew wanted to speak to him to make sure he was still alive.

 

[Butts]

Indeed, I have seen some truly appalling behaviour on South Wales trains, like the bloke who got on the 2345 to Fishguard, bounced off the wall and two seats, then promplty deposited a puddle of vomit on the floor. He then promptly collapsed into a seat and seemed quite annoyed that someone from the traincrew wanted to speak to him to make sure he was still alive.

It wasn't Rhys Ifans was it ? - sounds like a script from a film:roll: