Disruption on Sunday/Monday if England win

[CentralTrainer]

But work pays the bills, the mortgage etc. Unless you have thousands in the bank....

I think managers and HR will be paying a close eye on sickies come Monday morning. I certainly won't be impressed if my staff fail to turn up and lists have to be cancelled on the day - appointments have already been heavily delayed due to the pandemic

Yeah - but it’s Ingerlund in the football innit?

 

[geoffk]

I seem to recall GWR had a load of services cancelled three years ago on Wold Cup Final day as people made themselves unavailable. This was before the semi-final which England lost, so either people were betting that England would win or GWR had an unusually high number of Croatian and/or French crews...

Is GWR one of the TOCs which has Sundays outside the working week? I assume so from these comments.

 

[bramling]

Wow the miserables really have turned up in this thread.
It clearly isn't going to be a bank holiday because of the short notice, but there's nothing wrong with people having a bit of fun, especially after the last 18 months. I'd hope employers are understanding. Certainly mine is (and if we were back in the office we probably would have been watching some of the 5pm kick offs earlier on in the tournament at work).

That said, come on Italy!!

There's more to life than work. A lot more. Work just happens to pay for the rest. But the rest is absolutely more important than work.

Work doesn’t just pay for the rest, it provides the rest. Even if you or I had an infinite quantity of money, this would provide precisely nothing in the absence of the factors of production, one of which is labour.

There wouldn’t be a football match if there was no one to build the stadium, take people to it, et cetera.

Too many people in this country seem to feel it’s all take, take and take. If everyone took that attitude then we’d be no more advanced than cave dwellers.

On a different note, it hacks me off that only a few weeks ago I couldn’t stay away overnight in a hotel, yet now we’re going to apparently have carnage on Sunday night. But that’s a separate issue.

 

[londonteacher]

Let's hope that people in key services such as the NHS, Police and Fire Services don't have the same attitude of not turning up to work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2021 ==

In your view

It's not important though. Will your life change if you don't watch it?

Imagine if we took a day off everytime something good happens in the UK!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yeah - but it’s Ingerlund in the football innit?

Yeah but... let's cancel 4 theatre lists then for those patients who should have had their surgery early in 2020... Suppose one of those was your child/parent/friend

 

[CentralTrainer]

Yeah but... let's cancel 4 theatre lists then for those patients who should have had their surgery early in 2020... Suppose one of those was your child/parent/friend

I’m with you on this. Was more commenting as one of the “country should come to a complete stop for some sporting thing because I said so” brigade

 

[O L Leigh]

This again…? How about we wait and see what actually happens rather than theorising about how the world is going to implode just because of a sports tournament? You never know, it might not actually be so bad.

 

[Horizon22]

This again…? How about we wait and see what actually happens rather than theorising about how the world is going to implode just because of a sports tournament? You never know, it might not actually be so bad.

Several posts have already confirmed that various TOCs will definitely be having moderate/substantial cancellations on Sunday.

 

[O L Leigh]

Several posts have already confirmed that various TOCs will definitely be having moderate/substantial cancellations on Sunday.

Presumably only those TOCs that are under-resourced and/or have voluntary Sundays only. As for Monday, that will be down to under-resourcing only.

 

[Horizon22]

Presumably only those TOCs that are under-resourced and/or have voluntary Sundays only. As for Monday, that will be down to under-resourcing only.

This is correct yes - but its all normally of course masked behind lots of frantic resourcing and cover which will be lacking this weekend.

 

[O L Leigh]

This is correct yes - but its all normally of course masked behind lots of frantic resourcing and cover which will be lacking this weekend.

Or rather the TOC has taken the view that it’s better not to rely on short notice cover and cancel services instead of trying to get staff to come in.

But to go back to the OP’s question which was specifically relating to Monday, the answer would have to be “no”. Weekdays are covered as normal and are not reliant on overtime. Only those TOCs that are under-resourced will struggle, but then they were likely to struggle anyway. It will be impossible to attribute any cancellations specifically to the European Championship final.

 

[Horizon22]

Or rather the TOC has taken the view that it’s better not to rely on short notice cover and cancel services instead of trying to get staff to come in.

I doubt that - a few phonecalls is a lot cheaper than cancelling services. I imagine they were hit with a lot of "no thanks" though.

 

[O L Leigh]

I doubt that - a few phonecalls is a lot cheaper than cancelling services. I imagine they were hit with a lot of "no thanks" though.

I agree about the relative costs, but I disagree with the rest.

This is short-term planning, not ad-hoc on the day cancellations. As such this will have been worked out in advance which means that the TOC knows how many staff are required to meet that need. Once they’ve got x number of drivers/guards they know they can run their emergency service and don’t need to carry on phoning around.

 

[ungreat]

Let's hope that people in key services such as the NHS, Police and Fire Services don't have the same attitude of not turning up to work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2021 ==


It's not important though. Will your life change if you don't watch it?

Imagine if we took a day off everytime something good happens in the UK!

Totally agree. It's not important at all. Sure, it would be nice to see them win but personally I wont be any better off physically, mentally or financially win or lose. Netflix for me.

 

[Horizon22]

I agree about the relative costs, but I disagree with the rest.

This is short-term planning, not ad-hoc on the day cancellations. As such this will have been worked out in advance which means that the TOC knows how many staff are required to meet that need. Once they’ve got x number of drivers/guards they know they can run their emergency service and don’t need to carry on phoning around.

But at the same time, any competent resources / rostering team will have their priority list of people to call that will range from "takes any shift going" to "don't even bother" for overtime. Those in the middle and maybe even that top bracket, probably answered slightly differently for this Sunday than they normally would. When you say "emergency service", you're still cancelling a heck of a lot of trains.

Ad-hoc cancellations are in effect the result of short-term planning being unsucessful. They may seem ad-hoc but the shift/diagram has probably been uncovered for days.

 

[O L Leigh]

But at the same time, any competent resources / rostering team will have their priority list of people to call that will range from "takes any shift going" to "don't even bother" for overtime. Those in the middle and maybe even that top bracket, probably answered slightly differently for this Sunday than they normally would. When you say "emergency service", you're still cancelling a heck of a lot of trains.

Ad-hoc cancellations are in effect the result of short-term planning being unsucessful. They may seem ad-hoc but the shift/diagram has probably been uncovered for days.

No doubt. But those TOCs who have taken the decision to cut back their Sunday service this week have done so in advance. This is almost certainly a management decision based on the forecast Sunday attendance figures as a means of taking pressure off the rostering team.

But it bears saying again this is only going to affect those TOCs that do not have committed Sundays or Sundays inside the working week or those TOCs who are already under-resourced. This is not the same thing as network-wide meltdown.

 

[philthetube]

No doubt. But those TOCs who have taken the decision to cut back their Sunday service this week have done so in advance. This is almost certainly a management decision based on the forecast Sunday attendance figures as a means of taking pressure off the rostering team.

But it bears saying again this is only going to affect those TOCs that do not have committed Sundays or Sundays inside the working week or those TOCs who are already under-resourced. This is not the same thing as network-wide meltdown.

The rostering team would look at cover a couple of weeks in advance, not leave it to the last minute, so would have a good idea who would be available following an England victory or defeat.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Details have started to appear on the GWR site.

The below train services have been highlighted as uncovered,
we are working cover as many services as possible, on the day of travel, please check before you travel.


Night Riviera Sleeper services
The Night Riviera Sleeper services are cancelled, you may use your ticket for travel on an earlier train on Sunday 11th July or for travel on the following day Monday 12th July.
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington

Train services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads, Weston-super-Mare & Plymouth
14:56 Plymouth to London Paddington via Bristol Temple Meads at 17:02 will be cancelled.
18:27 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington will be cancelled
20:15 Weston-super- Mare to London Paddington will be cancelled
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads will be cancelled
17:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will terminate at Bristol Temple Meads
20:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will be cancelled.


Train services between London Paddington, Westbury, Exeter St Davids, Plymouth and Penzance
Train services from London Paddington:

08:00 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
09:13 Plymouth to Penzance will be cancelled
12:02 London Paddington to Penzance will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
14:37 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
15:03 London Paddington to Plymouth will call additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary.
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance will be cancelled.
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth will be cancelled.

Train services to London Paddington:
10:16 Penzance to London Paddington will be cancelled.
14:13 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington will be cancelled.
12:16 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Plymouth.
15:18 Penzance to London Paddington, will call additionally at Castle Cary, Westbury and Pewsey.
17:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington will be cancelled.
17:50 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Exeter St Davids.


Train services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa
19:31 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa will be cancelled.
20:59 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon will be cancelled.


Train services between London Paddington, Oxford and Hereford
11:46 London Paddington to Hereford will start from Reading and terminate at Worcester Shrub Hill.
12:46 London Paddington to Great Malvern will be cancelled.
16:46 London Paddington to Great Malvern will start from Reading and terminate at Great Malvern.
15:31 Hereford- London Paddington will be cancelled.
16:58 Great Malvern- London Paddington will start from Worcester Shrub Hill and terminate at Reading.
19:58 Great Malvern to London Paddington will start from Great Malvern and terminate at Reading.

Local stopping train services between Exeter St Davids, Plymouth and Penzance
From Exeter to Plymouth and Penzance
08:26 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled.
09:15 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled.
09:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be cancelled.
09:56 Plymouth to Penzance will be cancelled.
11:21 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled.
11:21 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth will be cancelled
13:09 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be started at Plymouth
15:03 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be cancelled.
16:20 Exeter St Davids to Penzance will be cancelled.

From Penzance and Plymouth to Exeter
08:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be terminated at Plymouth.
09:50 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
11:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
12:45 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
12:50 Penzance to Plymouth will be cancelled.
13:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
14:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
16:50 Penzance to Plymouth will be cancelled.

Local stopping train services between Paignton and Exmouth
16:18 Paignton to Exmouth will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
17:57 Exmouth to Paignton will be cancelled.
19:45 Paignton to Exmouth will be started at Exeter St Davids.

 

[O L Leigh]

The rostering team would look at cover a couple of weeks in advance, not leave it to the last minute, so would have a good idea who would be available following an England victory or defeat.

A couple of weeks…?! No, not really. I get begging texts and e-mails right up to the day when cover is required. Generally it starts from the daily mark-up stage (usually 3 days in advance), not several weeks ahead.

 

[seagull]

Let's hope that people in key services such as the NHS, Police and Fire Services don't have the same attitude of not turning up to work.

Charming. Way to generalise (and be completely wrong at the same time).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here that I've seen, is that any staff "pulling a sickie" on a Sunday, in most companies, will NOT get paid or be eligible for sick pay, as it is not part of the working week. So the idea of hundreds of staff doing that is unlikely, to say the least, particularly as many companies do offer extra for Sunday work too.

What also has not been brought up is the fact that this month (and August) are the most popular for annual leave - and weeks of annual leave often have accompanying agreements about guaranteeing the Sunday either before or after off work. So where, under normal circumstances a member of staff would have their week off and work the Sunday (if booked) before or after, they may choose in this case to exercise the right to guarantee it off.

 

[Horizon22]

A couple of weeks…?! No, not really. I get begging texts and e-mails right up to the day when cover is required. Generally it starts from the daily mark-up stage (usually 3 days in advance), not several weeks ahead.

Yes but they start the work a week out or so. It shifts from rostering (longer term) to resourcing about 7 days out.

 

[Efini92]

The rostering team would look at cover a couple of weeks in advance, not leave it to the last minute, so would have a good idea who would be available following an England victory or defeat.

It would be more like 72 hours max. Most places are 48 hours.

 

[Horizon22]

No doubt. But those TOCs who have taken the decision to cut back their Sunday service this week have done so in advance. This is almost certainly a management decision based on the forecast Sunday attendance figures as a means of taking pressure off the rostering team.

But it bears saying again this is only going to affect those TOCs that do not have committed Sundays or Sundays inside the working week or those TOCs who are already under-resourced. This is not the same thing as network-wide meltdown.

Theres comes a point yes by which you are aware that there’s no way to make up the numbers. I’ve seen sheets go from 40 uncovered diagrams in 3 days time to 0 in 2 days time practically overnight so it is possible. But again the teams will know what the usual take up % is compared to this weekend and then alarm bells start ringing…

Better to pre-plan a cancellation than on the day. Gives passengers fair warning, control teams the awareness to plan the stock and crew they do have etc.

 

[CentralTrainer]

I’ve heard that sales of Orange Juice and the uptake on NHS Lateral Flow Test Kits have shot up in some parts of the country over the past few days

 

[bramling]

Totally agree. It's not important at all. Sure, it would be nice to see them win but personally I wont be any better off physically, mentally or financially win or lose. Netflix for me.

This sums it up well I think. It’s a potential nicety for sure (even if personally it doesn’t float my own boat). But that’s all it is - a form of entertainment. If it really is such a potential memorable occasion or so much-needed lift for some then there’s something seriously broken with this country, its people and their lifestyles.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2021 ==

Theres comes a point yes by which you are aware that there’s no way to make up the numbers. I’ve seen sheets go from 40 uncovered diagrams in 3 days time to 0 in 2 days time practically overnight so it is possible. But again the teams will know what the usual take up % is compared to this weekend and then alarm bells start ringing…

Better to pre-plan a cancellation than on the day. Gives passengers fair warning, control teams the awareness to plan the stock and crew they do have etc.

No matter how much they plan, there’s bound to be a batch of on-the-day blow outs, so it all ends up being chaos anyway!

 

[O L Leigh]

Yes but they start the work a week out or so. It shifts from rostering (longer term) to resourcing about 7 days out.

It would be more like 72 hours max. Most places are 48 hours.

I think that’s most likely and certainly mirrors my own experiences.

Better to pre-plan a cancellation than on the day. Gives passengers fair warning, control teams the awareness to plan the stock and crew they do have etc.

No doubt. However, the TOCs in question haven’t necessarily found the full extent of the support from their employees.

 

[Efini92]

I think Sunday’s services will be poor in some parts of the country.
Monday will just be business as usual.

 

[Cantab26]

Not even sure it would be legal ! you can't just 'announce' a bank holiday.

Even if Boris declared Monday a bank holiday, we can't just cancel clinics and elective surgery at the drop of a hat.

It clearly isn't going to be a bank holiday because of the short notice

In theory, a bank holiday could have been proclaimed by the Queen on even as short notice as Friday.

It’s too late now though because the proclamation would have to be gazetted before it comes into effect and we’re now into the weekend.

 

[DorkingMain]

Very few staff are going to put their neck on the line and "pull a sickie" to avoid a duty they're booked to be doing.

a) A lot of TOCs work on the basis of Sundays outside anyway - so they would have no reason to
b) those who work for Sundays inside TOCs would be encouraging a lot of scrutiny on themselves, and might even be asked to produce a sick note.

Fact is the railway has been run on overtime for years. As I'm sure anyone who has been through the process knows, railway recruitment is painfully slow. Combine this with the fact it's in TOCs' interests to keep establishment numbers low and fill the gaps with overtime - less salaries to pay when you don't need so many staff, less training, less competencies to maintain. Usually this strategy works, because it's very easy to tempt people to work overtime if you offer a lot of cash for it. However, in situations where a large number of people don't want to be available for whatever reason, it falls apart.

Nobody is immoral for not wanting to work overtime. Especially not when that overtime is going to involve carrying large numbers of very happy / upset and very drunk football fans back from the pub. I wouldn't be working this Sunday if I wasn't obligated to.

 

[londonteacher]

I accept disruption on Sunday, even though we shouldn't have to accept it.

Disruption on Monday due to the football would be unacceptable.

Totally agree. It's not important at all. Sure, it would be nice to see them win but personally I wont be any better off physically, mentally or financially win or lose. Netflix for me.

Exactly. Are we going to go through this everytime England win something?